Comments on: Carol and the GIMP http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/ Dave Neary's view of the world Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:50:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Marc http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-22 Marc Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/#comment-22 I have to take a moment and comment on this. I think you are absolutely correct, and I think someone, somewhere, needs to set a precedent for dealing with nasty people (or good people with nasty social skills) who attach themselves to Open Source projects. Being perceived as part of the leadership of a project like The Gimp *must* carry with it specific social responsibilities, or the leadership itself will turn into one big liability as far as the future of the project goes. I have to take a moment and comment on this. I think you are absolutely correct, and I think someone, somewhere, needs to set a precedent for dealing with nasty people (or good people with nasty social skills) who attach themselves to Open Source projects. Being perceived as part of the leadership of a project like The Gimp *must* carry with it specific social responsibilities, or the leadership itself will turn into one big liability as far as the future of the project goes.

]]> By: John (J5) Palmieri http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-23 John (J5) Palmieri Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/#comment-23 I must say that after all of this I think the GIMP leadership is excellent. Instead of bemoaning that someone had posted something negative about the community they all jumped in to apologize which was unneeded since only one person who in the end does not represent The Gimp, was to blame. I must say that after all of this I think the GIMP leadership is excellent. Instead of bemoaning that someone had posted something negative about the community they all jumped in to apologize which was unneeded since only one person who in the end does not represent The Gimp, was to blame.

]]> By: Owen Williams http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-24 Owen Williams Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/#comment-24 "they all jumped in to apologize which was unneeded since only one person who in the end does not represent The Gimp, was to blame."<p/>The problem with open source development is that on a case-by-case basis it does appear that individuals speak for the group. Outsiders unfamiliar with open source are more accustomed to corporate developers which have entire departments to ensure that each employee stays on-message and that correspondence accurately reflects the shared values of the corporation.<p/>Without such restraints in place there will always be "loose cannons" in open source. The GIMP people were right to apologize lest it seem they condoned the comments. “they all jumped in to apologize which was unneeded since only one person who in the end does not represent The Gimp, was to blame.”

The problem with open source development is that on a case-by-case basis it does appear that individuals speak for the group. Outsiders unfamiliar with open source are more accustomed to corporate developers which have entire departments to ensure that each employee stays on-message and that correspondence accurately reflects the shared values of the corporation.

Without such restraints in place there will always be “loose cannons” in open source. The GIMP people were right to apologize lest it seem they condoned the comments.

]]> By: Benji2 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-25 Benji2 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/#comment-25 On the other hand, i can sympathise with Carols. I didn't read the incriminated bugreports, but i know for sure that when you had heard the Gimp bashed _for years_ everywhere for not being like AP, you can sometimes get crazy at some point. (Her main grief seems to be that the mail was comming from an @redhat address)<p/>Not that the mail is any justifiable behaviour or something, still. Maybe she could just apologize. But banning any contributors really should be a last resort. On the other hand, i can sympathise with Carols. I didn’t read the incriminated bugreports, but i know for sure that when you had heard the Gimp bashed _for years_ everywhere for not being like AP, you can sometimes get crazy at some point. (Her main grief seems to be that the mail was comming from an @redhat address)

Not that the mail is any justifiable behaviour or something, still. Maybe she could just apologize. But banning any contributors really should be a last resort.

]]> By: BK. http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-26 BK. Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/#comment-26 I must say I'm glad to see someone stand up to carol's abuse. Alright, she doesn't get as abusive as some on the net, but I too joined the gimp mailing list in order to help. Sometimes it was just a tiny comment here or there that gave gimp-only people an idea of how a photoshop tool worked, as I use both apps and know not all developers or people in a position to change gimp do. Minor help I realise, but some is better than none, and a little information in the right direction can do some great good.<p/>Mentioning photoshop even in passing managed to get carol's ire up enough for her to respond with some snarky comments on-list, but I finally left after I suggested a tool I'd like to see in the gimp. The private email from carol that followed was confusingly abusive, but in a roundabout way accused me of sleeping with someone in order to get the money to pay for photoshop, and that by suggesting gimp could have features that photoshop has I was belittling gimp users worldwide who were capable of doing great work with it regardless. Carol said she wasn't going to stand that kind of snobbery from a 'prostitute' like myself. For some reason she made the link to gimp and other free software saving people from a life of sleeping with other people in order to get quality software, and prostitutes who buy software hate open source.<p/>I just left the list. I didn't realise others had experienced similar, or that Carol wasn't a core gimp dev. I must say I’m glad to see someone stand up to carol’s abuse. Alright, she doesn’t get as abusive as some on the net, but I too joined the gimp mailing list in order to help. Sometimes it was just a tiny comment here or there that gave gimp-only people an idea of how a photoshop tool worked, as I use both apps and know not all developers or people in a position to change gimp do. Minor help I realise, but some is better than none, and a little information in the right direction can do some great good.

Mentioning photoshop even in passing managed to get carol’s ire up enough for her to respond with some snarky comments on-list, but I finally left after I suggested a tool I’d like to see in the gimp. The private email from carol that followed was confusingly abusive, but in a roundabout way accused me of sleeping with someone in order to get the money to pay for photoshop, and that by suggesting gimp could have features that photoshop has I was belittling gimp users worldwide who were capable of doing great work with it regardless. Carol said she wasn’t going to stand that kind of snobbery from a ‘prostitute’ like myself. For some reason she made the link to gimp and other free software saving people from a life of sleeping with other people in order to get quality software, and prostitutes who buy software hate open source.

I just left the list. I didn’t realise others had experienced similar, or that Carol wasn’t a core gimp dev.

]]> By: Søren Hauberg http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-27 Søren Hauberg Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/#comment-27 Quite some time ago I was considering joining the Gimp comunity, but I desided against since the people was extremely unpleasant. I remember Carol, and I remember thinking she was very annoying, but I thought it was quite obvious that she was just part of the "noisy" of the list. The person who got me to leave the list was Sven Neumann (did I spell that correctly).<br/>Now, Sven is properly a very smart guy, but he basicly acted as if that meant all other people where not so smart. He wasn't very rude to me, but he really treated other people very bad.<br/>And then I left...<p/>(P.S. Don't get me wrong I really love and love using the Gimp)<p/> Quite some time ago I was considering joining the Gimp comunity, but I desided against since the people was extremely unpleasant. I remember Carol, and I remember thinking she was very annoying, but I thought it was quite obvious that she was just part of the “noisy” of the list. The person who got me to leave the list was Sven Neumann (did I spell that correctly).
Now, Sven is properly a very smart guy, but he basicly acted as if that meant all other people where not so smart. He wasn’t very rude to me, but he really treated other people very bad.
And then I left…

(P.S. Don’t get me wrong I really love and love using the Gimp)

]]> By: Ravi Shekhar S http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-28 Ravi Shekhar S Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/#comment-28 Hi!<p/>Carol had always been polite and helpful when ever I used to seek help in #gimp.<p/>When I first read your post I thought -- WTF?!<br/>After I read her mail, I think she has to first help her own life before fixing the Gimp.<p/>Cheers!<br/>rss Hi!

Carol had always been polite and helpful when ever I used to seek help in #gimp.

When I first read your post I thought — WTF?!
After I read her mail, I think she has to first help her own life before fixing the Gimp.

Cheers!
rss

]]> By: Me http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-29 Me Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/#comment-29 I think you people are all overreacting here. Carol used to be a long years contributor to GIMP, did a lot of useful stuff and somehow is a respected person around GIMP.<p/>Just because she has some private problems (which we all have every now and then) shouldn't be the reason to throw her off as if she's some sort of abscess.<p/>I mean how do we value people, just because there are some Red Hat people filling in some bugs doesn't mean they get some sort of special treatment, except the thing maybe that something is to be expected from Red Hat which justifies getting rid of a long year contributor that easily.<p/>Personally I also believe that the Red Hat people start to take some sort of special rights whenever they are saying something which is more important than what anyone else says.<p/>Free Software is also about free speech and if Carol felt she had to reply in that way then there might have been a reason doing so. And from the looks of filled in Bugs it looked like Sven has closed most of them as NOBUG or WONTFIX or whatever anyways which already is a sign that most of the stuff that has been reported only caused a lot of wasteful time for the developers to respond.<p/>Please accept my comment as given and don't see any personal offendings here. Just clearing my own opinion, but then sometimes it's better to simply don't comment to anything. I think you people are all overreacting here. Carol used to be a long years contributor to GIMP, did a lot of useful stuff and somehow is a respected person around GIMP.

Just because she has some private problems (which we all have every now and then) shouldn’t be the reason to throw her off as if she’s some sort of abscess.

I mean how do we value people, just because there are some Red Hat people filling in some bugs doesn’t mean they get some sort of special treatment, except the thing maybe that something is to be expected from Red Hat which justifies getting rid of a long year contributor that easily.

Personally I also believe that the Red Hat people start to take some sort of special rights whenever they are saying something which is more important than what anyone else says.

Free Software is also about free speech and if Carol felt she had to reply in that way then there might have been a reason doing so. And from the looks of filled in Bugs it looked like Sven has closed most of them as NOBUG or WONTFIX or whatever anyways which already is a sign that most of the stuff that has been reported only caused a lot of wasteful time for the developers to respond.

Please accept my comment as given and don’t see any personal offendings here. Just clearing my own opinion, but then sometimes it’s better to simply don’t comment to anything.

]]> By: Me http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-30 Me Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/#comment-30 > Since only one person who in the end does not represent The Gimp, was to blame.<p/>John, for me she does represent the GIMP since she contributed to it with tutorials, help and other really useful stuff. I recall years back when I had long chats with carol and she always was quite calm and polite. So what are you trying to achieve here ? In your own blog you use words like 'the person should step back' and even here you use stuff like 'she is not representing GIMP'. These sentences only reflect that you desperately want her to go away as soon as even possible. Please think that you are not representing either my opinion nor the one from others, you are not even representing GNOME as a whole either. > Since only one person who in the end does not represent The Gimp, was to blame.

John, for me she does represent the GIMP since she contributed to it with tutorials, help and other really useful stuff. I recall years back when I had long chats with carol and she always was quite calm and polite. So what are you trying to achieve here ? In your own blog you use words like ‘the person should step back’ and even here you use stuff like ’she is not representing GIMP’. These sentences only reflect that you desperately want her to go away as soon as even possible. Please think that you are not representing either my opinion nor the one from others, you are not even representing GNOME as a whole either.

]]> By: Alexandre http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/comment-page-1/#comment-31 Alexandre Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2005/08/30/carol-and-the-gimp/#comment-31 Well, I didn't ever talk to Carol, though I'm a long time GIMP user (ca. 4 years). I've being reading gimp-developer@ via gmane for last several months and almost everywhere I saw Carol writing to the list she was pretty abusive and nasty.<p/>I truly have respect for all that she has done for GIMP users, so instead of banning her it would be better if one of lead developers spoke to her and tried to explain her that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable and not appreciated by anyone. Well, I didn’t ever talk to Carol, though I’m a long time GIMP user (ca. 4 years). I’ve being reading gimp-developer@ via gmane for last several months and almost everywhere I saw Carol writing to the list she was pretty abusive and nasty.

I truly have respect for all that she has done for GIMP users, so instead of banning her it would be better if one of lead developers spoke to her and tried to explain her that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable and not appreciated by anyone.

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