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	<title>Comments on: Bad advocacy</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/</link>
	<description>Dave Neary's view of the world</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Schumacher</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Schumacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/#comment-149</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t consider people who do things like 1, 2 and 3 to be part of the (or any) &quot;community&quot;. Maybe the community of script kiddies.&lt;p/&gt;So this is how the GIMP community has handled this issue so far: &lt;a href=&quot;http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171184&quot;&gt;http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171184&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;My comment #6 is a shorter version of your blog entry (and unfortunately it contains many, many typos).&lt;p/&gt;I know I&#039;m paranoid, but IMO the background of some of the people who take part in such &quot;punitive expeditions&quot; should be examined more closely - after all, a &quot;GPL software must not be sold&quot; attitude *is* a good thing for vendors of non-GPL software. Viral marketing, anyone?&lt;p/&gt;Later comments indicate that there is a lack of a standard procedure in the case of a suspected GPL violation - someone  should just have bought one copy from them (and get compensate from the donations, if this would have been a problem), examined it and reported what he found.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t consider people who do things like 1, 2 and 3 to be part of the (or any) &#8220;community&#8221;. Maybe the community of script kiddies.
<p />So this is how the GIMP community has handled this issue so far: <a href="http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171184">http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171184</a><br />My comment #6 is a shorter version of your blog entry (and unfortunately it contains many, many typos).
<p />I know I&#8217;m paranoid, but IMO the background of some of the people who take part in such &#8220;punitive expeditions&#8221; should be examined more closely &#8211; after all, a &#8220;GPL software must not be sold&#8221; attitude *is* a good thing for vendors of non-GPL software. Viral marketing, anyone?
<p />Later comments indicate that there is a lack of a standard procedure in the case of a suspected GPL violation &#8211; someone  should just have bought one copy from them (and get compensate from the donations, if this would have been a problem), examined it and reported what he found.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/#comment-150</guid>
		<description>Agreed; that is sad.&lt;p/&gt;But I also have to agree with Michael, I mean come on... &quot;batch file&quot;? These are kids who have read slashdot and perhaps a page or two from the OSI. I&#039;m not convinced this is a problem within our community.&lt;p/&gt;Still, I wish the philosophy and motivations of the community were more apparent to outsiders who think it&#039;s just a &quot;let&#039;s kill microsoft dead&quot; deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed; that is sad.
<p />But I also have to agree with Michael, I mean come on&#8230; &#8220;batch file&#8221;? These are kids who have read slashdot and perhaps a page or two from the OSI. I&#8217;m not convinced this is a problem within our community.
<p />Still, I wish the philosophy and motivations of the community were more apparent to outsiders who think it&#8217;s just a &#8220;let&#8217;s kill microsoft dead&#8221; deal.</p>
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		<title>By: bliggle snaps</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>bliggle snaps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/#comment-151</guid>
		<description>So you&#039;ve actually seen the source code? Know someone who&#039;s got it? Or are you just taking Luxuriousity&#039;s side to get some controversy stirred up?&lt;p/&gt;Can you back up any of your claims that what they&#039;re doing is legal with... I don&#039;t know... anything? You say they didn&#039;t modify the copyrights in the source code. So why don&#039;t you post some snippets of that source code for us?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you&#8217;ve actually seen the source code? Know someone who&#8217;s got it? Or are you just taking Luxuriousity&#8217;s side to get some controversy stirred up?
<p />Can you back up any of your claims that what they&#8217;re doing is legal with&#8230; I don&#8217;t know&#8230; anything? You say they didn&#8217;t modify the copyrights in the source code. So why don&#8217;t you post some snippets of that source code for us?</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Fitzsimon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Fitzsimon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/#comment-152</guid>
		<description>Companies that attach a worth to open source software often find an inroads to customers we would otherwise baffle with our open nature.  &lt;p/&gt;Sure its not the best way to give back but they do provide a form of advocacy that we do not.&lt;p/&gt;Imagine the delight of a user who discovers that the software they paid for 3 months ago can be freely downloaded and run on the platform of their choice. &lt;p/&gt;So the digg kiddies who did this arent open source developers in my opinion because they dont hold the view that this is allowed by terms of our license and can be in many cases beneficial first step into free/libre software for people who otherwise wouldnt consider us. &lt;p/&gt;If inkscape is being rebranded at least they are promoting the use of free standards like svg so that artists can make a contribution :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Companies that attach a worth to open source software often find an inroads to customers we would otherwise baffle with our open nature.
<p />Sure its not the best way to give back but they do provide a form of advocacy that we do not.
<p />Imagine the delight of a user who discovers that the software they paid for 3 months ago can be freely downloaded and run on the platform of their choice.
<p />So the digg kiddies who did this arent open source developers in my opinion because they dont hold the view that this is allowed by terms of our license and can be in many cases beneficial first step into free/libre software for people who otherwise wouldnt consider us.
<p />If inkscape is being rebranded at least they are promoting the use of free standards like svg so that artists can make a contribution <img src='http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Matt Brubeck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Brubeck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/#comment-153</guid>
		<description>My project (Audacity) was one of the free programs sold by Luxuriousity:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.pl?LuxuriousitySound&quot;&gt;http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.pl?LuxuriousitySound&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p/&gt;It&#039;s true that he was within his rights to sell the software, but he did so in a deceptive way that was harmful to both his customers and to the free software community.  He obviously relied on misleading his customers to prevent them from knowing that they could easily download the same software for free (even modifying screenshots on his site to remove identifying marks).  When the customers inevitably found out, they sent angry letters to us (the open-source developers) because he left our names as the only contact information in the program.  He offered no useful support to his customers.  For a long time, dealing with angry Luxuriousity buyers accounted for more effort than any other user-support issue on our mailing lists.  As a free software developers, we thrive on the goodwill of our users.  In a very real way, Luxuriousity poisoned that goodwill, sapping both our time and our motivation.&lt;p/&gt;The Audacity developers exchanged several email threads with the owner of Luxuriousity, and he was unwiling to take any steps to work with us, or even to mitigate the obvious problems caused by his deceptive business practices.&lt;p/&gt;In my opinion, free software distributors (like all businesses) have a clear ethical obligation to be honest with their customers about the nature of their products.  I have no problem with companies like Red Hat selling Linux CDs with Audacity, or with Griffin bundling Audacity with their sound hardware.  But eBay scammers selling CD-Rs disguised as commercial software are providing a useful profit to no one, and ultimately harming the community they&#039;re profiting from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My project (Audacity) was one of the free programs sold by Luxuriousity:<br /><a href="http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.pl?LuxuriousitySound">http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.pl?LuxuriousitySound</a>
<p />It&#8217;s true that he was within his rights to sell the software, but he did so in a deceptive way that was harmful to both his customers and to the free software community.  He obviously relied on misleading his customers to prevent them from knowing that they could easily download the same software for free (even modifying screenshots on his site to remove identifying marks).  When the customers inevitably found out, they sent angry letters to us (the open-source developers) because he left our names as the only contact information in the program.  He offered no useful support to his customers.  For a long time, dealing with angry Luxuriousity buyers accounted for more effort than any other user-support issue on our mailing lists.  As a free software developers, we thrive on the goodwill of our users.  In a very real way, Luxuriousity poisoned that goodwill, sapping both our time and our motivation.
<p />The Audacity developers exchanged several email threads with the owner of Luxuriousity, and he was unwiling to take any steps to work with us, or even to mitigate the obvious problems caused by his deceptive business practices.
<p />In my opinion, free software distributors (like all businesses) have a clear ethical obligation to be honest with their customers about the nature of their products.  I have no problem with companies like Red Hat selling Linux CDs with Audacity, or with Griffin bundling Audacity with their sound hardware.  But eBay scammers selling CD-Rs disguised as commercial software are providing a useful profit to no one, and ultimately harming the community they&#8217;re profiting from.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicu Buculei</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicu Buculei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/#comment-154</guid>
		<description>Everything Matt said about Luxuriousity and Audacity I saw also at OpenOffice.org: deceived users shouting with anger at the OOo volunteers because of Luxuriousity, false claims on their website, etc.&lt;br/&gt;AFAIK, OOo project leaders also tried to contact Luxuriousity people and ended reporting them to eBay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everything Matt said about Luxuriousity and Audacity I saw also at OpenOffice.org: deceived users shouting with anger at the OOo volunteers because of Luxuriousity, false claims on their website, etc.<br />AFAIK, OOo project leaders also tried to contact Luxuriousity people and ended reporting them to eBay.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Schumacher</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/comment-page-1/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Schumacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2006/01/26/bad-advocacy/#comment-155</guid>
		<description>So... is anyone going to document this issue for the media in a proper way, or do we want them to come up with their own interpretation of this? I could imagine that e.g. Forbes would have a totally different view on the topic than e.g. Newsforge. And this is when the real trouble will start...&lt;p/&gt;Right now, I&#039;m seeing a two-front war here:&lt;p/&gt;OSS Communities vs. Dubious Reseller vs. Vigilante Justice&lt;p/&gt;IMO two lines have to be drawn here - define what &quot;dubious&quot; means, and show the vigilantes that their actions aren&#039;t tolerated, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230; is anyone going to document this issue for the media in a proper way, or do we want them to come up with their own interpretation of this? I could imagine that e.g. Forbes would have a totally different view on the topic than e.g. Newsforge. And this is when the real trouble will start&#8230;
<p />Right now, I&#8217;m seeing a two-front war here:
<p />OSS Communities vs. Dubious Reseller vs. Vigilante Justice
<p />IMO two lines have to be drawn here &#8211; define what &#8220;dubious&#8221; means, and show the vigilantes that their actions aren&#8217;t tolerated, either.</p>
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