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	<title>Comments on: Before / After</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/</link>
	<description>Just another GNOME Blogs weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 11:15:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Hells_Dark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/comment-page-1/#comment-458</link>
		<dc:creator>Hells_Dark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/#comment-458</guid>
		<description>Hell yes...
Finally somebody clever.
I&#039;ve just posted this (*#!*$) bug : http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=552093 (if you mind looking..)
I&#039;m so happy Gnome has got developers like you Christian. 
We need you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hell yes&#8230;<br />
Finally somebody clever.<br />
I&#8217;ve just posted this (*#!*$) bug : <a href="http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=552093" rel="nofollow">http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=552093</a> (if you mind looking..)<br />
I&#8217;m so happy Gnome has got developers like you Christian.<br />
We need you.</p>
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		<title>By: Penis Enlargement</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/comment-page-1/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>Penis Enlargement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 05:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/#comment-457</guid>
		<description>I thins I naver see type website before its very informative for me http://www.penisenlargementz.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thins I naver see type website before its very informative for me <a href="http://www.penisenlargementz.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.penisenlargementz.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: mpt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/comment-page-1/#comment-456</link>
		<dc:creator>mpt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/#comment-456</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve reported http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=549729 for GTK to ellipsize a set of strings to fit in a space of a given size while keeping them distinct whenever possible. That would be useful for ellipsizing filenames in Nautilus&#039;s icon view, and in many other applications as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve reported <a href="http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=549729" rel="nofollow">http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=549729</a> for GTK to ellipsize a set of strings to fit in a space of a given size while keeping them distinct whenever possible. That would be useful for ellipsizing filenames in Nautilus&#8217;s icon view, and in many other applications as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonardo G.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/comment-page-1/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonardo G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 13:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/#comment-455</guid>
		<description>Sorry i didn&#039;t see the update to the post. The last suggestion is very elegant and innovative if well implemented, but i&#039;m sure Christian will do it the right way or nothing :) Anyway, just unhiding the extension will do the job quite well, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry i didn&#8217;t see the update to the post. The last suggestion is very elegant and innovative if well implemented, but i&#8217;m sure Christian will do it the right way or nothing <img src='http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Anyway, just unhiding the extension will do the job quite well, IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonardo G.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/comment-page-1/#comment-454</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonardo G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 13:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/#comment-454</guid>
		<description>Why do you people insist on describing situations that may be easily managed with compact or detail view? Icon view is useful when you are searching &quot;visually&quot; the thumbnail or the icon (&quot;icon view&quot;, do u remember?); for this kind of search the regularity of the grid is much more important than the file name, IMO. If you find two or three identical images or text document with different extensions, well i don&#039;t think you will become crazy finding the exact one you are looking for.
If you are managing so many files by name, then icon view is not for you. I don&#039;t say this can&#039;t be improved: i.e. to not hide the extension is a good idea, this is enough for 99% of the objections. Another good improvement could be on the fly filtering filenames, i.e. implementing regexp in the search feature of nautilus: you simply press .*(png&#124;gif) when you are in a folder and all other kind of files disappear :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you people insist on describing situations that may be easily managed with compact or detail view? Icon view is useful when you are searching &#8220;visually&#8221; the thumbnail or the icon (&#8221;icon view&#8221;, do u remember?); for this kind of search the regularity of the grid is much more important than the file name, IMO. If you find two or three identical images or text document with different extensions, well i don&#8217;t think you will become crazy finding the exact one you are looking for.<br />
If you are managing so many files by name, then icon view is not for you. I don&#8217;t say this can&#8217;t be improved: i.e. to not hide the extension is a good idea, this is enough for 99% of the objections. Another good improvement could be on the fly filtering filenames, i.e. implementing regexp in the search feature of nautilus: you simply press .*(png|gif) when you are in a folder and all other kind of files disappear <img src='http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Roumano</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/comment-page-1/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator>Roumano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/#comment-453</guid>
		<description>Very nice, thanks Neumair !!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice, thanks Neumair !!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Waldenberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Waldenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/#comment-452</guid>
		<description>Seeing alot of people here do not know much about interface design or usability; lets bring up some points that immediately spring to mind when implementing something like this:

The fact that this solution &quot;overlaps&quot; the icon below when selected adds some very nasty side-effects usability-wize.

Think about what happens when the top row files have very long filenames and the user selects them. Several rows below could &quot;disappear&quot; making them inaccessible, forcing the user to click an aditional time somewhere outside the selection in order to reveal the other files =&gt; more excise.

There are more problems.

How to distinguish between two files (when ellipsis is on) that are identical but just end differently ? When implementing an ellipsization feature, it should be &quot;smart&quot;. It has to be able to decide where its most suitable to shorten the filename (so users can find the files without having to click around everywhere). Its not enough to place ellipsis in the middle either, as the same problem might occur.

Always consider the side-effects that an implementation like this brings :).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seeing alot of people here do not know much about interface design or usability; lets bring up some points that immediately spring to mind when implementing something like this:</p>
<p>The fact that this solution &#8220;overlaps&#8221; the icon below when selected adds some very nasty side-effects usability-wize.</p>
<p>Think about what happens when the top row files have very long filenames and the user selects them. Several rows below could &#8220;disappear&#8221; making them inaccessible, forcing the user to click an aditional time somewhere outside the selection in order to reveal the other files =&gt; more excise.</p>
<p>There are more problems.</p>
<p>How to distinguish between two files (when ellipsis is on) that are identical but just end differently ? When implementing an ellipsization feature, it should be &#8220;smart&#8221;. It has to be able to decide where its most suitable to shorten the filename (so users can find the files without having to click around everywhere). Its not enough to place ellipsis in the middle either, as the same problem might occur.</p>
<p>Always consider the side-effects that an implementation like this brings <img src='http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: hen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/comment-page-1/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>hen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/#comment-451</guid>
		<description>This is a crap fix to a stupid bug. Most of the time you have a whacking great icon (which mostly conveys very little information) taking up 3 lines and in order to maintain a regular grid, the solution is to truncate the file name. Why truncate it by removing the end? Why not remove letters from the middle or the front, or just a random selection? Who are you to decide which parts of the filename are important to represent on this truncated view?

A better solution, would be to use some of the space taken by the icon, perhaps overlay the icon with the text.

However you look at it, arbitrary truncation is *not* the correct action. This an annoying usability issue with windows (and apparently other file managers), and until every file has metadata associated with it meaning we can store information in a sane manner, we are stuck with putting all our data into files, with names that describe them. The natural way to index a set of similar files is to SUFFIX an index onto a generic description, which when you&#039;re dealing with piles of data may very well be several lines long.

Why do people in Gnome keep making really stupid usability regressions. Gnome 2.0 started so promisingly in a usability sense. Usability is not difficult, it just requires one to think carefully about the use cases and pay attention to the subtle details.

That all said, I do very much value the work you put in, so thanks for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a crap fix to a stupid bug. Most of the time you have a whacking great icon (which mostly conveys very little information) taking up 3 lines and in order to maintain a regular grid, the solution is to truncate the file name. Why truncate it by removing the end? Why not remove letters from the middle or the front, or just a random selection? Who are you to decide which parts of the filename are important to represent on this truncated view?</p>
<p>A better solution, would be to use some of the space taken by the icon, perhaps overlay the icon with the text.</p>
<p>However you look at it, arbitrary truncation is *not* the correct action. This an annoying usability issue with windows (and apparently other file managers), and until every file has metadata associated with it meaning we can store information in a sane manner, we are stuck with putting all our data into files, with names that describe them. The natural way to index a set of similar files is to SUFFIX an index onto a generic description, which when you&#8217;re dealing with piles of data may very well be several lines long.</p>
<p>Why do people in Gnome keep making really stupid usability regressions. Gnome 2.0 started so promisingly in a usability sense. Usability is not difficult, it just requires one to think carefully about the use cases and pay attention to the subtle details.</p>
<p>That all said, I do very much value the work you put in, so thanks for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolki</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/#comment-450</guid>
		<description>I mostly agree with Adam as well.

Clearly, filenames can become too long (e. g., 10 lines seems too much) which somehow impedes usefulness of the icon view, so some amount of ellipsation seems neccesary. On the other hand, ellipsation of important information is clearly a loss of usefulness of the icon view, things that used to be visible at a glance are now hidden and require manual fiddling *every single time*. This will clearly punish users who made use of the old behvior to give their files descriptive names, and will in the worst case require them to manually rename several years&#039; worth of file names.

Increasing the number of lines might be a good idea, 4 lines is a size you can easily hit in normal usage, especially if one zooms out a bit. Using long words is also a big problem, as Nautilus will not split them unless neccessary, which will cause them to not fill up the lines completely and hit the information loss barrier earlier. Increasing the limit to 5 or 6 lines  will cover more everyday uses while still stopping overly long file names, and might be a good idea.

Does it always show the extension? I can&#039;t see it from your screenshot, if not it probably should. Whether it&#039;s the png or xcf version of an image (or, say, a .c or .h file) can make a big difference, and this information will always be hidden first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mostly agree with Adam as well.</p>
<p>Clearly, filenames can become too long (e. g., 10 lines seems too much) which somehow impedes usefulness of the icon view, so some amount of ellipsation seems neccesary. On the other hand, ellipsation of important information is clearly a loss of usefulness of the icon view, things that used to be visible at a glance are now hidden and require manual fiddling *every single time*. This will clearly punish users who made use of the old behvior to give their files descriptive names, and will in the worst case require them to manually rename several years&#8217; worth of file names.</p>
<p>Increasing the number of lines might be a good idea, 4 lines is a size you can easily hit in normal usage, especially if one zooms out a bit. Using long words is also a big problem, as Nautilus will not split them unless neccessary, which will cause them to not fill up the lines completely and hit the information loss barrier earlier. Increasing the limit to 5 or 6 lines  will cover more everyday uses while still stopping overly long file names, and might be a good idea.</p>
<p>Does it always show the extension? I can&#8217;t see it from your screenshot, if not it probably should. Whether it&#8217;s the png or xcf version of an image (or, say, a .c or .h file) can make a big difference, and this information will always be hidden first.</p>
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		<title>By: ahmet</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/comment-page-1/#comment-449</link>
		<dc:creator>ahmet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/cneumair/2008/08/16/before-after/#comment-449</guid>
		<description>if we compile what has been said so far into a single solution, we (i believe) can get to a point that pleases mostly everyone:

- the ellipsization should only take place on really long filenames (exact limit to be decided. compact layout may have a lower limit)

- ellipsis should be placed at the middle rather than end of the file name

may be this can spare us from another option in the preferences dialog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if we compile what has been said so far into a single solution, we (i believe) can get to a point that pleases mostly everyone:</p>
<p>- the ellipsization should only take place on really long filenames (exact limit to be decided. compact layout may have a lower limit)</p>
<p>- ellipsis should be placed at the middle rather than end of the file name</p>
<p>may be this can spare us from another option in the preferences dialog.</p>
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