Comments on: Insanity? http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/ My fiancee is like Windows Vista: Looks pretty, difficult to understand and sometimes unpredictable... Sat, 05 Jul 2008 05:23:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Ha http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-272 Ha Thu, 01 May 2008 03:20:51 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-272 Instead of firmware, why not call it a package: A package needs to be installed for detected Logitech Quick Cam. [Install Now] [Install Later] If install later, just add it to the list of package updates whenever that next happens (maybe they want to dowload it later because they just plugged in their shiny new webcam to try it out, but have no network to pull updates from until the laptop gets home, etc.) Instead of firmware, why not call it a package: A package needs to be installed for detected Logitech Quick Cam. [Install Now] [Install Later]

If install later, just add it to the list of package updates whenever that next happens

(maybe they want to dowload it later because they just plugged in their shiny new webcam to try it out, but have no network to pull updates from until the laptop gets home, etc.)

]]> By: Chris Jones http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-271 Chris Jones Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:44:06 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-271 err, not that you actually are sacrificing freedom, you're just helping vendors who are too lazy to put some firmware flash on their hardware. don't get me wrong, sure it would be nice if someone could hack on the firmware for my wireless card, but it's nowhere near as important as being able to hack on the software that uses the wireless card. Having said that I would love to be able to write my own CPU microcode. I just don't see the argument about firmware blobs being bad. It's especially unhelpful in a distro whose job it is to make hardware work (yes you guessed it, I'm an Ubuntu user ;) err, not that you actually are sacrificing freedom, you’re just helping vendors who are too lazy to put some firmware flash on their hardware.
don’t get me wrong, sure it would be nice if someone could hack on the firmware for my wireless card, but it’s nowhere near as important as being able to hack on the software that uses the wireless card.
Having said that I would love to be able to write my own CPU microcode. I just don’t see the argument about firmware blobs being bad. It’s especially unhelpful in a distro whose job it is to make hardware work (yes you guessed it, I’m an Ubuntu user ;)

]]> By: Chris Jones http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-270 Chris Jones Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:40:46 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-270 it seems like a bit of a strange option - who is going to say "actually no I don't want my hardware to work"? you'd need to say "btw you're sacrificing freedom and babies if you click install" for them to care and that's getting into a very long winded and tedious notification bubble ;) it seems like a bit of a strange option - who is going to say “actually no I don’t want my hardware to work”?
you’d need to say “btw you’re sacrificing freedom and babies if you click install” for them to care and that’s getting into a very long winded and tedious notification bubble ;)

]]> By: David Timms http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-264 David Timms Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:34:53 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-264 So there has been some "don't call firmware firmware" comments, but no better suggestions. Some could be confused about the "install firmware", and whether this means it is on the computer but needs to be installed, or whether it needs to be downloaded, installed, and set to automatically load on device insertion. My attempt =================== tell em they need a driver...try to find it. The following accessory device has been attached to this computer: Remote Controlled Toaster by NTastia, model RCT-H7800. The basic driver software required to enable this device to operate is not currently installed on this computer. An attempt to locate the basic driver within the $distribution software repositories has been started. [ Cancel Search ] [ Hide ] [ Don't show this information again ] [ Just do it ] \============ / 84% complete ============================= search succeeds, new popup: ============================= firmware found, does user want it ? A basic driver for the following accessory device has been located in the $distribution software repository: Remote Controlled Toaster by NTastia, model RCT-H7800. Download and install the basic driver [ ntastia-rct-firmware.fw ] ? [ Cancel ] [Download only] [ Download and Install ] \========= / 56% complete ============================= OK, the package containing that fw has been installed, new popup: ============================= A basic driver for the following accessory device has been installed: Remote Controlled Toaster by NTastia, model RCT-H7800. The basic driver will be loaded if you remove and then re-attach the device to this computer. or The basic driver will be loaded next time you reboot your computer{, if that would be required}. ============================= alternately, the fw isn't packaged in the distro repo, tell them what they need: ============================= A basic driver for the following accessory device could not be located in the $distribution software repository: Remote Controlled Toaster by NTastia, model RCT-H7800. Please check the device manufacturer's manual, and or internet web site [link to www.ntastia.com] , to see if they provide an appropriate basic driver or firmware for the linux operating system. The missing basic driver file is called 'ntastia-rct-firmware.fw ', and will be autoloaded if it is placed in the following folder: /lib/firmware/. This would need to be performed as the administrative user. -------- notes: - the popups would need to stay up until user action {not autohide}. - "been attached" changes to "installed in" if that can be reasonably assumed. - enable was "operate" in my first iteration. - "activated" has connotations of ms software license activation, perhaps run, booted, started, loaded ? - if no internet, still get a dialog similar to the first so that the user knows that at least the device X has been detected. - ask the user if they have a driver disk .... to insert the fw from. - sometimes rebranding of identical devices could be confusing eg insert a fred 101 DVB tuner and get notified about the base product instead george gh-456 DVB tuner. - if the user sticks the appropriate driver in manually, this dialogs should not be show at all. So there has been some “don’t call firmware firmware” comments, but no better suggestions.
Some could be confused about the “install firmware”, and whether this means it is on the computer but needs to be installed, or whether it needs to be downloaded, installed, and set to automatically load on device insertion.

My attempt =================== tell em they need a driver…try to find it.
The following accessory device has been attached to this computer:
Remote Controlled Toaster by NTastia, model RCT-H7800.

The basic driver software required to enable this device to operate is not currently installed on this computer. An attempt to locate the basic driver within the $distribution software repositories has been started.

[ Cancel Search ] [ Hide ] [ Don’t show this information again ] [ Just do it ]
\============ / 84% complete

=============================

search succeeds, new popup:
============================= firmware found, does user want it ?
A basic driver for the following accessory device has been located in the $distribution software repository:
Remote Controlled Toaster by NTastia, model RCT-H7800.

Download and install the basic driver [ ntastia-rct-firmware.fw ] ?
[ Cancel ] [Download only] [ Download and Install ]
\========= / 56% complete

=============================

OK, the package containing that fw has been installed, new popup:
=============================
A basic driver for the following accessory device has been installed:
Remote Controlled Toaster by NTastia, model RCT-H7800.

The basic driver will be loaded if you remove and then re-attach the device to this computer.
or
The basic driver will be loaded next time you reboot your computer{, if that would be required}.
=============================

alternately, the fw isn’t packaged in the distro repo, tell them what they need:
=============================
A basic driver for the following accessory device could not be located in the $distribution software repository:
Remote Controlled Toaster by NTastia, model RCT-H7800.

Please check the device manufacturer’s manual, and or internet web site [link to http://www.ntastia.com , to see if they provide an appropriate basic driver or firmware for the linux operating system.

The missing basic driver file is called ‘ntastia-rct-firmware.fw ‘, and will be autoloaded if it is placed in the following folder: /lib/firmware/. This would need to be performed as the administrative user.
——–
notes:
- the popups would need to stay up until user action {not autohide}.
- “been attached” changes to “installed in” if that can be reasonably assumed.
- enable was “operate” in my first iteration.
- “activated” has connotations of ms software license activation, perhaps run, booted, started, loaded ?
- if no internet, still get a dialog similar to the first so that the user knows that at least the device X has been detected.
- ask the user if they have a driver disk …. to insert the fw from.
- sometimes rebranding of identical devices could be confusing eg insert a fred 101 DVB tuner and get notified about the base product instead george gh-456 DVB tuner.
- if the user sticks the appropriate driver in manually, this dialogs should not be show at all.

]]> By: Mats Taraldsvik http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-263 Mats Taraldsvik Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:02:26 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-263 Couldn't this notification be integrated into the notification about system updates, somehow? A "Updates is available" with an additional "update contains packages to make z work (better). (firmware)". One should perhaps have the choice of removing the firmware update, but I can't really think of any situation where the user should opt out on firmware, and thus I don't really see the point in it being a separate notification. I love the idea, and everything that happens automatically is great. Keep up the good work! Couldn’t this notification be integrated into the notification about system updates, somehow? A “Updates is available” with an additional “update contains packages to make z work (better). (firmware)”. One should perhaps have the choice of removing the firmware update, but I can’t really think of any situation where the user should opt out on firmware, and thus I don’t really see the point in it being a separate notification.

I love the idea, and everything that happens automatically is great. Keep up the good work!

]]> By: hughsie http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-260 hughsie Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:08:08 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-260 >What’s ‘firmware’? I know, I suck at words. Got any better ideas? :-) >What’s ‘firmware’?

I know, I suck at words. Got any better ideas? :-)

]]> By: Adam Williamson http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-258 Adam Williamson Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:46:12 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-258 What's 'firmware'? Why are you asking me whether I should install it? What are the possible consequences of each decision? What’s ‘firmware’?

Why are you asking me whether I should install it?

What are the possible consequences of each decision?

]]> By: loupgaroublond http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-257 loupgaroublond Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:31:44 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-257 +1 +1

]]> By: Nicolas Mailhot http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-256 Nicolas Mailhot Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:20:30 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-256 Complete insanity if you do not convey to the user what exact piece of hardware (as in function, manufacturer & model) needs firmware. The user needs to know what will stay broken if he chooses no and why this week's popup is different from the last one (new hardware? broken firmware installer?) Complete insanity if you do not convey to the user what exact piece of hardware (as in function, manufacturer & model) needs firmware.

The user needs to know what will stay broken if he chooses no and why this week’s popup is different from the last one (new hardware? broken firmware installer?)

]]> By: Chris Cunningham http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-255 Chris Cunningham Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:52:55 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2008/04/21/insanity/#comment-255 daniels got the semantics exactly right, but failed to capture the essence of the user experience for the 99% of people who have never heard the word "firmware": - Chris daniels got the semantics exactly right, but failed to capture the essence of the user experience for the 99% of people who have never heard the word “firmware”:

- Chris

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