Comments on: Libnotifytastic http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/ Blog about geeky stuff Sun, 29 Jan 2012 09:38:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: hughsie http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/comment-page-1/#comment-932 hughsie Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:59:13 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/?p=298#comment-932 New screenshot uploaded. In the worst case scenario (system restart required, messages present, critical updates remain) you'll see two icons. In normal usage you're see one icon where the most important thing is displayed and the others suppressed. I agree the messages are not useful for most users, but some people need to see the output. Debian users in particular need to be able to see what configuration files were changed, as sometimes an automatic merge will not be performed. If something doesn't work correctly, and the user starts to debug, they do need to see the messages. Cheers for the feedback, hopefully we can keep refining the design until we've got something that keeps all of you happy :-) New screenshot uploaded. In the worst case scenario (system restart required, messages present, critical updates remain) you’ll see two icons. In normal usage you’re see one icon where the most important thing is displayed and the others suppressed.

I agree the messages are not useful for most users, but some people need to see the output. Debian users in particular need to be able to see what configuration files were changed, as sometimes an automatic merge will not be performed. If something doesn’t work correctly, and the user starts to debug, they do need to see the messages.

Cheers for the feedback, hopefully we can keep refining the design until we’ve got something that keeps all of you happy :-)

]]> By: Patrys http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/comment-page-1/#comment-931 Patrys Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:31:01 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/?p=298#comment-931 Adam: That's exactly what I had in mind. An audit log similar to what Windows does with configurable verbosity for an admin. No hacky details for users (like mirror errors or config merges). They don't care. And even if they did, they probably don't have enough skill and - most importantly - privileges to even look at said config file. Let's keep the old notifications for stuff like "new updates available" or "packages installed" but I see no point in developing a whole new notification system just to strike down upon the innocent user with great vengeance. Adam:

That’s exactly what I had in mind. An audit log similar to what Windows does with configurable verbosity for an admin.

No hacky details for users (like mirror errors or config merges). They don’t care. And even if they did, they probably don’t have enough skill and – most importantly – privileges to even look at said config file.

Let’s keep the old notifications for stuff like “new updates available” or “packages installed” but I see no point in developing a whole new notification system just to strike down upon the innocent user with great vengeance.

]]> By: Adam Petaccia http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/comment-page-1/#comment-930 Adam Petaccia Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:41:49 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/?p=298#comment-930 Why not just use the system log? If they're nonfatal then most users wont care, but a sysadmin can use Gnome's log viewer to check it out. Why not just use the system log? If they’re nonfatal then most users wont care, but a sysadmin can use Gnome’s log viewer to check it out.

]]> By: twilightomni http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/comment-page-1/#comment-929 twilightomni Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:46:56 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/?p=298#comment-929 Aside from the possible question of duplicated functionality... With this "event viewer", PackageKit is beginning to show the dark interiors of the package management system that it was trying to shield users from in the first place. Use cases! The _only_ role type that these messages would be useful for is a competent system administrator -- which isn't really one of your user profiles. Even the "hobbyist computer whiz" will find this dumping-ground obtuse and a buzzword blackbox. Handle with care for what messages are revealed. PackageKit would ideally be able to probe the user for assistance with any repository and metadata problems in a way that allows you to heal the system, with a minimum of deluging-the-user-with-complexity. That would probably mean you would never explicitly see the term "invalid metadata for [really-weird-name-here] repository". :) Of course that can all be polished, and I understand you're working on the interaction metaphor itself, as opposed to the content. Aside from the possible question of duplicated functionality…

With this “event viewer”, PackageKit is beginning to show the dark interiors of the package management system that it was trying to shield users from in the first place.

Use cases! The _only_ role type that these messages would be useful for is a competent system administrator — which isn’t really one of your user profiles. Even the “hobbyist computer whiz” will find this dumping-ground obtuse and a buzzword blackbox.

Handle with care for what messages are revealed. PackageKit would ideally be able to probe the user for assistance with any repository and metadata problems in a way that allows you to heal the system, with a minimum of deluging-the-user-with-complexity. That would probably mean you would never explicitly see the term “invalid metadata for [really-weird-name-here] repository”. :)

Of course that can all be polished, and I understand you’re working on the interaction metaphor itself, as opposed to the content.

]]> By: Achim http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/comment-page-1/#comment-928 Achim Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:44:44 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/?p=298#comment-928 I think the idea is not bad. It could fit very well to the concept that Mark proposed. http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/253 Regards Achim I think the idea is not bad.

It could fit very well to the concept that Mark proposed.
http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/253

Regards
Achim

]]> By: Dylan McCall http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/comment-page-1/#comment-927 Dylan McCall Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:59:14 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/?p=298#comment-927 It would be nice if accessing the notification area was done /with/ libnotify, instead of having two differnent APIs intended for the exact same concept that we have to fight over. It would be nice if accessing the notification area was done /with/ libnotify, instead of having two differnent APIs intended for the exact same concept that we have to fight over.

]]> By: Joe Buck http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/comment-page-1/#comment-926 Joe Buck Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:25:56 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/?p=298#comment-926 And the "solution" you suggest mixes together things that the user might care about, to things that the user should not care about and can't do anything about. Bad metadata? Load it again from a different mirror and don't bug the user. New packages available? Cool, but why provide that information as individual messages mixed in with messages the user doesn't care about? Configuration files were changed? What is the non-expert supposed to do about that? And the “solution” you suggest mixes together things that the user might care about, to things that the user should not care about and can’t do anything about. Bad metadata? Load it again from a different mirror and don’t bug the user. New packages available? Cool, but why provide that information as individual messages mixed in with messages the user doesn’t care about? Configuration files were changed? What is the non-expert supposed to do about that?

]]> By: mike http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/comment-page-1/#comment-925 mike Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:06:25 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/?p=298#comment-925 Is PackageKit using more than one TrayIcon? pls not ;) Is PackageKit using more than one TrayIcon?

pls not ;)

]]> By: Vadim P. http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/comment-page-1/#comment-924 Vadim P. Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:44:12 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/?p=298#comment-924 Yeah I hope this is a joke too. "oh, 5 messages eh?" *opens the dialog* "um... okay, now what? I guess I just press this 'Close' button and get on with my wasted 2 minutes" Yeah I hope this is a joke too. “oh, 5 messages eh?” *opens the dialog* “um… okay, now what? I guess I just press this ‘Close’ button and get on with my wasted 2 minutes”

]]> By: rawsausage http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/01/19/libnotifytastic/comment-page-1/#comment-923 rawsausage Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:38:36 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/?p=298#comment-923 Spamming the user with irrelevant stuff the user does not have to ever be aware of. Spamming the user with irrelevant stuff the user does not have to ever be aware of.

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