<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:creativeCommons="http://backend.userland.com/creativeCommonsRssModule"	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Love is not enough. We need to discuss the relationship, darling!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/</link>
	<description>The mustache, the beard and the smile: everything together.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:31:16 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jason Clinton</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Clinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Like being ignored? &lt;a href=&quot;http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324035&quot;&gt;[1]&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=318803&quot;&gt;[2]&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=318808&quot;&gt;[3]&lt;/a&gt;. After these experiences I will be more reluctant to put any effort in to contributing in the future. I&#039;m seriously thinking of just helping the KDE project instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like being ignored? <a href="http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324035">[1]</a> <a href="http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=318803">[2]</a> <a href="http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=318808">[3]</a>. After these experiences I will be more reluctant to put any effort in to contributing in the future. I&#8217;m seriously thinking of just helping the KDE project instead.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ed Catmur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Catmur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/#comment-21</guid>
		<description>You think you&#039;re being ignored? Look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://bugzilla.gnome.org/describeuser.cgi?login=ed%40catmur.co.uk&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; list!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You think you&#8217;re being ignored? Look at <a href="http://bugzilla.gnome.org/describeuser.cgi?login=ed%40catmur.co.uk">this</a> list!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sean kelley</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>sean kelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/#comment-22</guid>
		<description>I manage an embedded software team and do most of my programming in C/C++ for WinCE as well as our own in-house kernel designs.  Outside of work I tend to enjoy Qt and by extension KDE for its structured and documented environment.  Gnome seems rather chaotic.  It always seems to be going in too many directions at once.  Perhaps a good deal of that is the result of the particular interests of the companies that that back Gnome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I manage an embedded software team and do most of my programming in C/C++ for WinCE as well as our own in-house kernel designs.  Outside of work I tend to enjoy Qt and by extension KDE for its structured and documented environment.  Gnome seems rather chaotic.  It always seems to be going in too many directions at once.  Perhaps a good deal of that is the result of the particular interests of the companies that that back Gnome.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/#comment-23</guid>
		<description>My personal experience is that when I tried to contribute something, I was ridiculed by several people for doing it the &quot;wrong way&quot; by the cool kids.  It really soured my own willingness to devote my free time to the project, though I am still an avid fan of the platform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My personal experience is that when I tried to contribute something, I was ridiculed by several people for doing it the &#8220;wrong way&#8221; by the cool kids.  It really soured my own willingness to devote my free time to the project, though I am still an avid fan of the platform.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/#comment-24</guid>
		<description>A couple of years ago I had decided that I would like to contribute to the GNOME project.  I have quite a bit of experience with C, but very little with the GNOME platform.  My plan of attack was to get a CVS HEAD build of GNOME running, find an easily reproducible bug (and hopefully fairly easy to fix) in bugzilla, and start working.&lt;p/&gt;I basically never made it past step one.  I was using jhbuild (which I loved) to build GNOME from CVS, but I found to my dismay that GNOME in its entirety is almost never buildable (or wasn&#039;t at the time).  I didn&#039;t just try a few times.  I tried at least a couple of times a week over the course of a couple of months.  Not once was I able to just start up jhbuild, leave for a while, and come back with a successful build.  I was generally able to fix things and continue the build if I spent enough time on it, and I got CVS builds of GNOME running on several occasions, but it would literally take me all day just to do that (usually it was autoconf erroring out for one reason or another rather than a compilation failure).  Ultimately I decided that I was spending all of my time on just trying to build GNOME and no time actually working on it, so I gave up and moved on to more rewarding projects.&lt;p/&gt;I&#039;ve seen mention of somebody (Luis Villa?) setting up a tinderbox machine since then, but I have no idea what the state of that is.  And maybe things have changed since a couple of years ago.  But I was surprised that CVS HEAD was broken as often as it was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of years ago I had decided that I would like to contribute to the GNOME project.  I have quite a bit of experience with C, but very little with the GNOME platform.  My plan of attack was to get a CVS HEAD build of GNOME running, find an easily reproducible bug (and hopefully fairly easy to fix) in bugzilla, and start working.
<p />I basically never made it past step one.  I was using jhbuild (which I loved) to build GNOME from CVS, but I found to my dismay that GNOME in its entirety is almost never buildable (or wasn&#8217;t at the time).  I didn&#8217;t just try a few times.  I tried at least a couple of times a week over the course of a couple of months.  Not once was I able to just start up jhbuild, leave for a while, and come back with a successful build.  I was generally able to fix things and continue the build if I spent enough time on it, and I got CVS builds of GNOME running on several occasions, but it would literally take me all day just to do that (usually it was autoconf erroring out for one reason or another rather than a compilation failure).  Ultimately I decided that I was spending all of my time on just trying to build GNOME and no time actually working on it, so I gave up and moved on to more rewarding projects.
<p />I&#8217;ve seen mention of somebody (Luis Villa?) setting up a tinderbox machine since then, but I have no idea what the state of that is.  And maybe things have changed since a couple of years ago.  But I was surprised that CVS HEAD was broken as often as it was.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: liberforce</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>liberforce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/#comment-25</guid>
		<description>I totaly agree with Thomas... Having a working jhbuild is just a hasle, even with the help available here: &lt;a href=&quot;http://live.gnome.org/CategoryJhbuild&quot;&gt;http://live.gnome.org/CategoryJhbuild&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p/&gt;Just compiling a *released* version is pretty difficult without a few hacks... never managed to have a running platform with a single &quot;jhbuild build&quot;. So imagine when compaling an unstable version and that someone breaks the cvs... you just don&#039;t know why, and just have to wait a few days, or know a date when it worked and have some cvs knowledge.&lt;p/&gt;The other important problem of the GNOME platform is the documentation. Outdated information available at developer.gnome.og harms more that does good. Theres no centralized repository for tutorials, and many tutorials available are in html, so it&#039;s not easy to update them when they become outdated, unlike their wikified counterparts.&lt;p/&gt;For the simple question &quot;how should I create a menu in a gtk app&quot;, information on developer.gnome.org would talk me of bonobo, while live.gnome.org would send me to GtkUIManager... Kinda hard to know what is the right way to do something.&lt;p/&gt;We really need a centralized (and wikified, I think) version of all the &quot;moving&quot; documentation (code, cvs, jhbuild, etc... tutorials) and AVOID INFORMATION DUPLICATION !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totaly agree with Thomas&#8230; Having a working jhbuild is just a hasle, even with the help available here: <a href="http://live.gnome.org/CategoryJhbuild">http://live.gnome.org/CategoryJhbuild</a>
<p />Just compiling a *released* version is pretty difficult without a few hacks&#8230; never managed to have a running platform with a single &#8220;jhbuild build&#8221;. So imagine when compaling an unstable version and that someone breaks the cvs&#8230; you just don&#8217;t know why, and just have to wait a few days, or know a date when it worked and have some cvs knowledge.
<p />The other important problem of the GNOME platform is the documentation. Outdated information available at developer.gnome.og harms more that does good. Theres no centralized repository for tutorials, and many tutorials available are in html, so it&#8217;s not easy to update them when they become outdated, unlike their wikified counterparts.
<p />For the simple question &#8220;how should I create a menu in a gtk app&#8221;, information on developer.gnome.org would talk me of bonobo, while live.gnome.org would send me to GtkUIManager&#8230; Kinda hard to know what is the right way to do something.
<p />We really need a centralized (and wikified, I think) version of all the &#8220;moving&#8221; documentation (code, cvs, jhbuild, etc&#8230; tutorials) and AVOID INFORMATION DUPLICATION !!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JCJ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>JCJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/#comment-26</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a visual sort of person, and I was baffled by the non-existance of any sort of map to GNOME.  I&#039;ve finally found some sort of foothold through mono and its libraries and tutorials, but even that is pretty rough.&lt;p/&gt;The sheer volume of C code required to do anything trivial really pushed me away.  I can read and write C well enough, but I prefer to avoid it, as I&#039;ve discovered C&#039;s somewhere between ASM and Java.  When I&#039;m trying to learn an architecture, a concept, pages of C code get in the way of a six word idea.&lt;p/&gt;I still find it easier to write wxPython than GNOME code.  The wxPython demo and documentation go hand-in-hand, and it&#039;s terribly simple to do almost anything.  I didn&#039;t find anything comparable for Gnome.  The best stuff is in the mono Gtk stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a visual sort of person, and I was baffled by the non-existance of any sort of map to GNOME.  I&#8217;ve finally found some sort of foothold through mono and its libraries and tutorials, but even that is pretty rough.
<p />The sheer volume of C code required to do anything trivial really pushed me away.  I can read and write C well enough, but I prefer to avoid it, as I&#8217;ve discovered C&#8217;s somewhere between ASM and Java.  When I&#8217;m trying to learn an architecture, a concept, pages of C code get in the way of a six word idea.
<p />I still find it easier to write wxPython than GNOME code.  The wxPython demo and documentation go hand-in-hand, and it&#8217;s terribly simple to do almost anything.  I didn&#8217;t find anything comparable for Gnome.  The best stuff is in the mono Gtk stuff.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JCJ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>JCJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/#comment-27</guid>
		<description>I also want to second the difficulty of building GNOME.  It&#039;s an exceptional event when autoconf successfully AUTO confs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also want to second the difficulty of building GNOME.  It&#8217;s an exceptional event when autoconf successfully AUTO confs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: benoit</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>benoit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>I made two simple searches on google, &quot;building Gnome&quot; and &quot;building KDE&quot;. Here are the first results: &lt;br/&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gnome.org/~newren/tutorials/developing-with-gnome/html/ch04.html&quot;&gt;http://www.gnome.org/~newren/tutorials/developing-with-gnome/html/ch04.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;and &lt;br/&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://quality.kde.org/develop/cvsguide/buildstep.php&quot;&gt;http://quality.kde.org/develop/cvsguide/buildstep.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The difference of quality is obvious.The Kde doc is on the Quality part of the KDE site which is a good place. The Gnome doc is on an unknown account, &quot;newren&quot;, on the Gnome site. Moreover, I don&#039;t speak about the quality and the organization f both contents.&lt;br/&gt;We have to take some examples from other projects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I made two simple searches on google, &#8220;building Gnome&#8221; and &#8220;building KDE&#8221;. Here are the first results: <br /><a href="http://www.gnome.org/~newren/tutorials/developing-with-gnome/html/ch04.html">http://www.gnome.org/~newren/tutorials/developing-with-gnome/html/ch04.html</a><br />and <br /><a href="http://quality.kde.org/develop/cvsguide/buildstep.php">http://quality.kde.org/develop/cvsguide/buildstep.php</a><br />The difference of quality is obvious.The Kde doc is on the Quality part of the KDE site which is a good place. The Gnome doc is on an unknown account, &#8220;newren&#8221;, on the Gnome site. Moreover, I don&#8217;t speak about the quality and the organization f both contents.<br />We have to take some examples from other projects.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: liberforce</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/comment-page-1/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>liberforce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2005/12/18/love-is-not-enough-we-need-to-discuss-the-relationship-darling/#comment-29</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve started a mockup of what should be done IMHO:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://live.gnome.org/Developer_2eGnome_2eOrg_20Must_20Die&quot;&gt;http://live.gnome.org/Developer_2eGnome_2eOrg_20Must_20Die&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p/&gt;Feel free to add your comments to the wiki</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve started a mockup of what should be done IMHO:<br /><a href="http://live.gnome.org/Developer_2eGnome_2eOrg_20Must_20Die">http://live.gnome.org/Developer_2eGnome_2eOrg_20Must_20Die</a>
<p />Feel free to add your comments to the wiki</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
