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	<title>Comments on: Women in Open Source &#8211; Q&amp;A with Myself</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/2009/08/31/women-in-open-source-qa-with-myself/</link>
	<description>Establishing clarity</description>
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		<title>By: marina</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/2009/08/31/women-in-open-source-qa-with-myself/comment-page-1/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>marina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 04:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/?p=19#comment-29</guid>
		<description>nicu:

Thank you for very good suggestions. I updated the post.

Alexander van Loon:

Women might have less spare time because they have more responsibilities or they spend their spare time differently. The idea is to either make more women see that open source is a worthwhile hobby or to make more paid opportunities for women to participate. I list the reasons why we want to have more women involved in the post.

I was listing all the roles people can play in the open source community, and have now updated the post to reflect that.

Very few women apply for the Google Summer of Code and the goal of the outreach program would be to encourage women to apply and to get involved in the open source community, not to exclude men. Many of the improvements that we can make to encourage more women to participate will in fact attract more new contributors in general. The idea is that women are more likely to assume that the open source community is not for them, so they need that extra encouragement.

Mirsal Ennaime:

Thanks for sharing your story! I actually found that there are very few arrogant assholes on IRC (maybe they are on different channels, like #arrogant-assholes ?) and definitely never had any arrogance or the kind of attention you describe about how I need to be treated drawn around me. So I don&#039;t think it&#039;s that bad in general and female newcomers would generally be helped and encouraged (possibly, even more than male ones). They just need to decide to sign in and get involved first.

Tibo:

You are right, these are not women specific. Though proportionally, it seems that men are more likely to figure out some of these things themselves. It&#039;s true that addressing these will attract more newcomers in general.

b0b:

There are proportionally fewer women involved in open source vs. proprietary software (1.5% vs. 28%) as quoted here: http://gnomejournal.org/article/48/the-womens-summer-outreach-program

zenwalker:

I think people are much better about this nowadays. Of course, women need to have some resilience in the matter too and not get discouraged at the slightest remark that might seem out-of-line. The more challenging part is actually to dissuade women from believing the stereotypes that open source is intentionally male-dominated and to get them involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nicu:</p>
<p>Thank you for very good suggestions. I updated the post.</p>
<p>Alexander van Loon:</p>
<p>Women might have less spare time because they have more responsibilities or they spend their spare time differently. The idea is to either make more women see that open source is a worthwhile hobby or to make more paid opportunities for women to participate. I list the reasons why we want to have more women involved in the post.</p>
<p>I was listing all the roles people can play in the open source community, and have now updated the post to reflect that.</p>
<p>Very few women apply for the Google Summer of Code and the goal of the outreach program would be to encourage women to apply and to get involved in the open source community, not to exclude men. Many of the improvements that we can make to encourage more women to participate will in fact attract more new contributors in general. The idea is that women are more likely to assume that the open source community is not for them, so they need that extra encouragement.</p>
<p>Mirsal Ennaime:</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your story! I actually found that there are very few arrogant assholes on IRC (maybe they are on different channels, like #arrogant-assholes ?) and definitely never had any arrogance or the kind of attention you describe about how I need to be treated drawn around me. So I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s that bad in general and female newcomers would generally be helped and encouraged (possibly, even more than male ones). They just need to decide to sign in and get involved first.</p>
<p>Tibo:</p>
<p>You are right, these are not women specific. Though proportionally, it seems that men are more likely to figure out some of these things themselves. It&#8217;s true that addressing these will attract more newcomers in general.</p>
<p>b0b:</p>
<p>There are proportionally fewer women involved in open source vs. proprietary software (1.5% vs. 28%) as quoted here: <a href="http://gnomejournal.org/article/48/the-womens-summer-outreach-program" rel="nofollow">http://gnomejournal.org/article/48/the-womens-summer-outreach-program</a></p>
<p>zenwalker:</p>
<p>I think people are much better about this nowadays. Of course, women need to have some resilience in the matter too and not get discouraged at the slightest remark that might seem out-of-line. The more challenging part is actually to dissuade women from believing the stereotypes that open source is intentionally male-dominated and to get them involved.</p>
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		<title>By: zenwalker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/2009/08/31/women-in-open-source-qa-with-myself/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>zenwalker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 04:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/?p=19#comment-23</guid>
		<description>Other reason for Women not taking particiapting in FOSS also becoz many times they wont be treated as fellow FOSS members but instead as a women and seen a bit different maybe sexually or some ting else 2. Recently read an article where some bad thing was projected at some conference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other reason for Women not taking particiapting in FOSS also becoz many times they wont be treated as fellow FOSS members but instead as a women and seen a bit different maybe sexually or some ting else 2. Recently read an article where some bad thing was projected at some conference.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/2009/08/31/women-in-open-source-qa-with-myself/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/?p=19#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Q. Can women get involved?

A1. If they proactively seek it.

A2. By wanting to contribute the other 50% perspective.

A3. By being encouraged to join in</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q. Can women get involved?</p>
<p>A1. If they proactively seek it.</p>
<p>A2. By wanting to contribute the other 50% perspective.</p>
<p>A3. By being encouraged to join in</p>
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		<title>By: Greg K Nicholson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/2009/08/31/women-in-open-source-qa-with-myself/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg K Nicholson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/?p=19#comment-20</guid>
		<description>“The fact there is very few women in OSS just reflects the fact that there a few woman in Software development in general.”

False. The proportion of women in open source is much less than in closed source (and closed source&#039;s numbers aren&#039;t stellar).

“Generally speaking, women are just not interested by Computer Science.”

Nonsense.

Please don&#039;t assert that there&#039;s no problem. We&#039;re trying to fix the problem, not debate its existence; such debate is a hindrance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The fact there is very few women in OSS just reflects the fact that there a few woman in Software development in general.”</p>
<p>False. The proportion of women in open source is much less than in closed source (and closed source&#8217;s numbers aren&#8217;t stellar).</p>
<p>“Generally speaking, women are just not interested by Computer Science.”</p>
<p>Nonsense.</p>
<p>Please don&#8217;t assert that there&#8217;s no problem. We&#8217;re trying to fix the problem, not debate its existence; such debate is a hindrance.</p>
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		<title>By: b0b</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/2009/08/31/women-in-open-source-qa-with-myself/comment-page-1/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>b0b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/?p=19#comment-16</guid>
		<description>The fact there is very few women in OSS just reflects the fact that there a few woman in Software development in general. At the place I work, there are only men as developers. Like most other software shops.
Generally speaking, women are just not interested by Computer Science. There&#039;s not much that can be done about that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact there is very few women in OSS just reflects the fact that there a few woman in Software development in general. At the place I work, there are only men as developers. Like most other software shops.<br />
Generally speaking, women are just not interested by Computer Science. There&#8217;s not much that can be done about that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tibo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/2009/08/31/women-in-open-source-qa-with-myself/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Tibo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/?p=19#comment-14</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Why are women staying out?

Lack of knowledge about how to get involved
Lack of spare time and different cultural hobbies and responsibilities
Lack of knowledge about how important and valuable the free software movement is
Lack of open source recruitment events&lt;/blockquote&gt;
How exactly are these women-specific?
You are right of course that they are problems that should be addressed, but men have the exact same problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Why are women staying out?</p>
<p>Lack of knowledge about how to get involved<br />
Lack of spare time and different cultural hobbies and responsibilities<br />
Lack of knowledge about how important and valuable the free software movement is<br />
Lack of open source recruitment events</p></blockquote>
<p>How exactly are these women-specific?<br />
You are right of course that they are problems that should be addressed, but men have the exact same problems.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mirsal Ennaime</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/2009/08/31/women-in-open-source-qa-with-myself/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirsal Ennaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/?p=19#comment-12</guid>
		<description>I wrote about this topic a while ago, there: http://mirsal.ennaime.free.fr/index.php/21/2008/05/18/about-gender-disparities-in-the-free-software-community/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote about this topic a while ago, there: <a href="http://mirsal.ennaime.free.fr/index.php/21/2008/05/18/about-gender-disparities-in-the-free-software-community/" rel="nofollow">http://mirsal.ennaime.free.fr/index.php/21/2008/05/18/about-gender-disparities-in-the-free-software-community/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alexander van Loon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/2009/08/31/women-in-open-source-qa-with-myself/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander van Loon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/?p=19#comment-11</guid>
		<description>I don’t see how lack of spare time could be a cause for women? If it were really a cause, wouldn’t it equally apply to men? I don’t see how it’s beneficial to think about which roles women specifically could play in OSS, shouldn’t they be able to do all the work men do?

While the goal of attracting more women to OSS might be noble, in my opinion the ends do not justify the means. An outreach program for women would exclude men, which makes it benign discrimination. In my opinion there’s no such thing as benign discrimination, discrimination is malign in any case.

The money for those outreach programs could better be spend on extra students for the Google Summer of Code.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t see how lack of spare time could be a cause for women? If it were really a cause, wouldn’t it equally apply to men? I don’t see how it’s beneficial to think about which roles women specifically could play in OSS, shouldn’t they be able to do all the work men do?</p>
<p>While the goal of attracting more women to OSS might be noble, in my opinion the ends do not justify the means. An outreach program for women would exclude men, which makes it benign discrimination. In my opinion there’s no such thing as benign discrimination, discrimination is malign in any case.</p>
<p>The money for those outreach programs could better be spend on extra students for the Google Summer of Code.</p>
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		<title>By: nicu</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/2009/08/31/women-in-open-source-qa-with-myself/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>nicu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/marina/?p=19#comment-9</guid>
		<description>I think you can drop &quot;usability&quot; from &quot;Identifying usability issues and helping users&quot; or at least add a general QA item: if women can get involved in software development, they surely get also involved in finding/triaging bugs in software.
Also, documentation writing is another area open for contributions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you can drop &#8220;usability&#8221; from &#8220;Identifying usability issues and helping users&#8221; or at least add a general QA item: if women can get involved in software development, they surely get also involved in finding/triaging bugs in software.<br />
Also, documentation writing is another area open for contributions.</p>
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