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	<title>Comments on: The concepts a user must learn to understand existing VCSes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/</link>
	<description>Just another GNOME Blogs weblog</description>
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		<title>By: The Linux Index &#187; James Henstridge: States in Version Control Systems</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/comment-page-1/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>The Linux Index &#187; James Henstridge: States in Version Control Systems</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/#comment-203</guid>
		<description>[...] version control systems. While the previous articles have been very informative, I think the latest one was a bit muddled. What follows is an expanded version of my comment on that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] version control systems. While the previous articles have been very informative, I think the latest one was a bit muddled. What follows is an expanded version of my comment on that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Henstridge &#187; States in Version Control Systems</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/comment-page-1/#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator>James Henstridge &#187; States in Version Control Systems</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 09:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/#comment-202</guid>
		<description>[...] version control systems. While the previous articles have been very informative, I think the latest one was a bit muddled. What follows is an expanded version of my comment on that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] version control systems. While the previous articles have been very informative, I think the latest one was a bit muddled. What follows is an expanded version of my comment on that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Henstridge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/comment-page-1/#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>James Henstridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 04:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/#comment-201</guid>
		<description>Elijah: maybe it is just me, but it seems a lot more confusing to talk about the &quot;five states&quot; for files when you have two orthogonal concepts: file states in the working tree, and tree versions.

The tree version idea maps quite well to the model that many text editors use: there is the previously recorded version of the tree, and the unsaved next version of the tree that you are currently working on.  As most text editors don&#039;t allow you to selectively save changes to a file, I don&#039;t think the analogy fits the other states.

For working tree states, I think it helps to think of a hierarchy of states rather than a flat list.  The most basic is &quot;versioned vs. unversioned&quot;, where only versioned files make it into the next version of the tree.

With this categorisation, &quot;versioned&quot; corresponds to your &quot;index&quot; state.  I&#039;d then add the subcategories of &quot;unchanged&quot;, &quot;modified&quot;, &quot;added&quot; and &quot;deleted&quot;.  These subcategories are all relative to the previous tree versions.

Under &quot;unversioned&quot;, there are &quot;ignored&quot; and &quot;unknown&quot; (or limbo if you want).  By definition, there is no information about unversioned files in previously tree versions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elijah: maybe it is just me, but it seems a lot more confusing to talk about the &#8220;five states&#8221; for files when you have two orthogonal concepts: file states in the working tree, and tree versions.</p>
<p>The tree version idea maps quite well to the model that many text editors use: there is the previously recorded version of the tree, and the unsaved next version of the tree that you are currently working on.  As most text editors don&#8217;t allow you to selectively save changes to a file, I don&#8217;t think the analogy fits the other states.</p>
<p>For working tree states, I think it helps to think of a hierarchy of states rather than a flat list.  The most basic is &#8220;versioned vs. unversioned&#8221;, where only versioned files make it into the next version of the tree.</p>
<p>With this categorisation, &#8220;versioned&#8221; corresponds to your &#8220;index&#8221; state.  I&#8217;d then add the subcategories of &#8220;unchanged&#8221;, &#8220;modified&#8221;, &#8220;added&#8221; and &#8220;deleted&#8221;.  These subcategories are all relative to the previous tree versions.</p>
<p>Under &#8220;unversioned&#8221;, there are &#8220;ignored&#8221; and &#8220;unknown&#8221; (or limbo if you want).  By definition, there is no information about unversioned files in previously tree versions.</p>
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		<title>By: ovitters</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/comment-page-1/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>ovitters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/#comment-200</guid>
		<description>Elijah: Please ignore John and continue this series.

John: Think outside of the box.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elijah: Please ignore John and continue this series.</p>
<p>John: Think outside of the box.</p>
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		<title>By: Mathias Hasselmann</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/comment-page-1/#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathias Hasselmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 17:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/#comment-198</guid>
		<description>newren: Your SCM post very quite interesting so far, but this one somehow didn&#039;t manage to get to the point. Alot of definition, few conclusions - allthough I have to admit that I might have over-read it by accidently, &#039;cause this post in opposition to your other, interesting posts urged me to fast forward when reading.

Greetz Mathias,
Awaiting insightful follow-ups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>newren: Your SCM post very quite interesting so far, but this one somehow didn&#8217;t manage to get to the point. Alot of definition, few conclusions &#8211; allthough I have to admit that I might have over-read it by accidently, &#8217;cause this post in opposition to your other, interesting posts urged me to fast forward when reading.</p>
<p>Greetz Mathias,<br />
Awaiting insightful follow-ups.</p>
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		<title>By: Ludovic</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/comment-page-1/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>Ludovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 17:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/#comment-197</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’ve had feedback from other people that they were very useful to them in understanding the various systems.&quot;

Indeed, and I really appreciate your articles on the matter. Lot of people really miss use/understand VCS. The concept is not that easy to grasp for everyone. Keep on that really good series.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve had feedback from other people that they were very useful to them in understanding the various systems.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed, and I really appreciate your articles on the matter. Lot of people really miss use/understand VCS. The concept is not that easy to grasp for everyone. Keep on that really good series.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: newren</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/comment-page-1/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>newren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 15:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/#comment-194</guid>
		<description>John: If you read my first post on the subject at http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/11/15/starting-to-compare-version-control-systems/, you&#039;ll see that this was about a few of the questions I posted there.  Most people probably aren&#039;t interested in those same questions as I was, making this post irrelevant to them.  But it may be useful if they shared the same questions I had (how much knowledge transfers from learning one system to learning another?  why do people argue that centralized systems are easier to learn?  why do distributed users argue that they are just as easy to learn?  why do people claim git is harder to learn, but some people claim it&#039;s not?)  To me at least, this post is a good way of framing and answering those questions.

If you&#039;re talking about the other posts, I&#039;ve had feedback from other people that they were very useful to them in understanding the various systems.  I guess my goals are just different than you seem to be assuming.  I&#039;m not trying to encourage convergence of the VCS market (sure it&#039;d be nice, but I agree it won&#039;t happen).  And I don&#039;t understand your comment that the VCS debate is a moot point, though I really wasn&#039;t trying to get involved in a debate--I was trying to provide information useful for understanding various systems and help individuals compare and contrast them on their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: If you read my first post on the subject at <a href="http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/11/15/starting-to-compare-version-control-systems/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/11/15/starting-to-compare-version-control-systems/</a>, you&#8217;ll see that this was about a few of the questions I posted there.  Most people probably aren&#8217;t interested in those same questions as I was, making this post irrelevant to them.  But it may be useful if they shared the same questions I had (how much knowledge transfers from learning one system to learning another?  why do people argue that centralized systems are easier to learn?  why do distributed users argue that they are just as easy to learn?  why do people claim git is harder to learn, but some people claim it&#8217;s not?)  To me at least, this post is a good way of framing and answering those questions.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re talking about the other posts, I&#8217;ve had feedback from other people that they were very useful to them in understanding the various systems.  I guess my goals are just different than you seem to be assuming.  I&#8217;m not trying to encourage convergence of the VCS market (sure it&#8217;d be nice, but I agree it won&#8217;t happen).  And I don&#8217;t understand your comment that the VCS debate is a moot point, though I really wasn&#8217;t trying to get involved in a debate&#8211;I was trying to provide information useful for understanding various systems and help individuals compare and contrast them on their own.</p>
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		<title>By: menko</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/comment-page-1/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>menko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 14:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/#comment-193</guid>
		<description>True. Git&#039;s index really fights such limbos.

Haven&#039;t though in any positive way about the index first, but now the &quot;git add &amp;&amp; git commit&quot; instead of a simple &quot;svn commit&quot;  makes sence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True. Git&#8217;s index really fights such limbos.</p>
<p>Haven&#8217;t though in any positive way about the index first, but now the &#8220;git add &amp;&amp; git commit&#8221; instead of a simple &#8220;svn commit&#8221;  makes sence.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/comment-page-1/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 09:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/newren/2007/12/01/the-concepts-a-user-must-learn-to-understand-existing-vcses/#comment-192</guid>
		<description>Not to bash your effort but I wonder what the point of all this work is. I can&#039;t see how free software developers will gain anything from all of this information. The VCS debate is a moot point. There will be no convergence of the VCS market. So, if a new VCS system was developed it would relegated to a niche market (bzr, hg, monotone, etc.) It&#039;s unlikely that there will be repeat of git.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to bash your effort but I wonder what the point of all this work is. I can&#8217;t see how free software developers will gain anything from all of this information. The VCS debate is a moot point. There will be no convergence of the VCS market. So, if a new VCS system was developed it would relegated to a niche market (bzr, hg, monotone, etc.) It&#8217;s unlikely that there will be repeat of git.</p>
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