Comments for Shaun's Blog http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm Fourteen hours to save the Earth Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:58:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 Comment on Three Point Zero by Bob http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-83 Bob Sat, 06 Sep 2008 11:27:33 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-83 > We need a strong leader (or a few strong leaders) that can unite the community. In my pow the Gnome community is deeply fragmented I couldn't agree more. Moreover GNOME seems disconnected from his userbase. Very few feedback. > We need a strong leader (or a few strong leaders) that can unite the community. In my pow the Gnome community is deeply fragmented

I couldn’t agree more. Moreover GNOME seems disconnected from his userbase. Very few feedback.

]]> Comment on Three Point Zero by Bob http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-82 Bob Sat, 06 Sep 2008 11:25:09 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-82 I have nice ideas, I think, for GNOME 3.0. However if you're not a developer, your voice is not really heard. Devs are already very busy for maintaining GNOME 2.xx, will they have the time to think about some farfelous ideas for GNOME 3 ? I have a lot of complaints too about major GNOME aps : Nautilus usability sucks (sorry for dev, but the tab stuff is not what I call a nice innovation), it slows too : showing /usr/bin or a folder with lot of picture is hell slow. GNOME Office is in a galaxy far far away from KOffice (I know this is not a « official part » of GNOME but it should be), we should really inspire from them. In regard to the Gimp, Krita is more appealing too. Evolution, well, Evolution is a bit bloated, Evolution may be a nice apps for power users if you need to connect to Exchange, but for desktop user, I think GNOME should ship a more simple mail client, with separate Calendar/Address Book apps (see Pimlico suite by OH guys). Communication/ Collaborative : I wanna be able to send file opened in gedit just using File>Send to... and then it launch my mail client with the attachment. Or use some kind of Telepathy backend for collaborative editing on various apps : some kind of "Contact" menu, that permits to invite someone in your empathy contacts list to work on the current document. Customization is a problem too. I won't troll like Linus, but hell, why can't I move toolbars, or add/remove buttons ? Let's talk about metacity : no vertical/horizontal window reorganizing ? GNOME in general lacks of homogeneity, communication between apps, it's more like a collection of soft, rather than a Desktop Environment. Restricting languages used in GNOME Desktop might be a good idea too, for example, we could focus on setting up a C/C++/Vala development environment to appeal new devs, and limit apps' plugins to one scripting language (Python/Ruby/ECMAscript/whatever). What about setting up a GNOME 3.0 brainstorm where users could send their ideas ? (ps: yeah I know, lot of critics, but please don't say « Just send your patches », I'm not a dev, and I won't learn how to make good code in one month, and I'm already busy with translations) I have nice ideas, I think, for GNOME 3.0. However if you’re not a developer, your voice is not really heard. Devs are already very busy for maintaining GNOME 2.xx, will they have the time to think about some farfelous ideas for GNOME 3 ?

I have a lot of complaints too about major GNOME aps :
Nautilus usability sucks (sorry for dev, but the tab stuff is not what I call a nice innovation), it slows too : showing /usr/bin or a folder with lot of picture is hell slow.

GNOME Office is in a galaxy far far away from KOffice (I know this is not a « official part » of GNOME but it should be), we should really inspire from them.
In regard to the Gimp, Krita is more appealing too.

Evolution, well, Evolution is a bit bloated, Evolution may be a nice apps for power users if you need to connect to Exchange, but for desktop user, I think GNOME should ship a more simple mail client, with separate Calendar/Address Book apps (see Pimlico suite by OH guys).

Communication/ Collaborative : I wanna be able to send file opened in gedit just using File>Send to… and then it launch my mail client with the attachment. Or use some kind of Telepathy backend for collaborative editing on various apps : some kind of “Contact” menu, that permits to invite someone in your empathy contacts list to work on the current document.

Customization is a problem too. I won’t troll like Linus, but hell, why can’t I move toolbars, or add/remove buttons ? Let’s talk about metacity : no vertical/horizontal window reorganizing ?

GNOME in general lacks of homogeneity, communication between apps, it’s more like a collection of soft, rather than a Desktop Environment. Restricting languages used in GNOME Desktop might be a good idea too, for example, we could focus on setting up a C/C++/Vala development environment to appeal new devs, and limit apps’ plugins to one scripting language (Python/Ruby/ECMAscript/whatever).

What about setting up a GNOME 3.0 brainstorm where users could send their ideas ?

(ps: yeah I know, lot of critics, but please don’t say « Just send your patches », I’m not a dev, and I won’t learn how to make good code in one month, and I’m already busy with translations)

]]> Comment on Three Point Zero by Botond Szasz http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-81 Botond Szasz Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:59:59 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-81 I agree with Johannes Berg. I think one of the most important things is that we have nice integrated development environment, which is part of Gnome and is just as easy to use like GEdit for example. I start it up create a new project and off I go, I can start writing code. I know that there are a couple very powerful tool for hacking on code, but the thing is that if I download some tar.gz file or I check out an SVN repo for a project I cant just open the project file in a development environment and start looking where can I help or enhance the code or something. The autotools (and possibly other such tools) are not friendly enough. I would like to have a dev tool that is so easy to use that I can learn coding using it. Currently I have to learn first how the different build tools and such work and then learn to how integrate the project into some other editor/ide. You all lost me half the way. I'm not trying to be a troll, but that's just how things are. I seriously want to be involved in some project or start my own, but the initial barrier is way too high. Something like the MonoDevelop IDE does (having a project file to open and start hacking) is seriously needed for the other languages too. Anjuta is trying to get here with C but it has a long way to go, and its development seems slow. I would like to have a killer IDE for Vala with integrated Glade, from which I can do anything related to coding without major (possibly any) configuration first. Having an easily usable dev system would propel Gnome development very much ahead and fast, believe me. And for this to start rolling a leader is needed. I agree with Johannes Berg. I think one of the most important things is that we have nice integrated development environment, which is part of Gnome and is just as easy to use like GEdit for example. I start it up create a new project and off I go, I can start writing code. I know that there are a couple very powerful tool for hacking on code, but the thing is that if I download some tar.gz file or I check out an SVN repo for a project I cant just open the project file in a development environment and start looking where can I help or enhance the code or something. The autotools (and possibly other such tools) are not friendly enough. I would like to have a dev tool that is so easy to use that I can learn coding using it. Currently I have to learn first how the different build tools and such work and then learn to how integrate the project into some other editor/ide.
You all lost me half the way. I’m not trying to be a troll, but that’s just how things are. I seriously want to be involved in some project or start my own, but the initial barrier is way too high. Something like the MonoDevelop IDE does (having a project file to open and start hacking) is seriously needed for the other languages too. Anjuta is trying to get here with C but it has a long way to go, and its development seems slow.

I would like to have a killer IDE for Vala with integrated Glade, from which I can do anything related to coding without major (possibly any) configuration first.

Having an easily usable dev system would propel Gnome development very much ahead and fast, believe me.

And for this to start rolling a leader is needed.

]]> Comment on Three Point Zero by Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-80 Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen Thu, 04 Sep 2008 11:36:37 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-80 “the buck stops here”: - there you said it ;-P Anyways, Gnome 3.0 is starting to look like a lost battle to me. We need a strong leader (or a few strong leaders) that can unite the community. In my pow the Gnome community is deeply fragmented. Time is running and the create energies are seeking other outlets. “the buck stops here”: - there you said it ;-P

Anyways, Gnome 3.0 is starting to look like a lost battle to me. We need a strong leader (or a few strong leaders) that can unite the community. In my pow the Gnome community is deeply fragmented.

Time is running and the create energies are seeking other outlets.

]]> Comment on Three Point Zero by yann http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-79 yann Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:47:22 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-79 I would like to submit ideas for a gnome 3.0, but I do not know where to do it. So I write some ideas here: - auto-save: the documents should automatically be saved. (To create a new document, we ask for the document name) - trace of all actions: all my actions should be traced (talk to XX, delete this file...). A "undo" is proposed for all possible actions. The user is also never scared to do something wrong. The tracing a all actions could be used to generate macros. - document sorted by history: when I want to open a document, I have a historical view of all my documents. I can found the presentation I work on 2 days ago for example. The desktop could be this historical view. - tag documents: I can tag documents to find them quicker the next time. - no window: all applications are full-screen. One application per virtual desktop. There is always a free virtual desktop (dynamically added). I would like to submit ideas for a gnome 3.0, but I do not know where to do it.
So I write some ideas here:
- auto-save: the documents should automatically be saved. (To create a new document, we ask for the document name)
- trace of all actions: all my actions should be traced (talk to XX, delete this file…). A “undo” is proposed for all possible actions. The user is also never scared to do something wrong.
The tracing a all actions could be used to generate macros.
- document sorted by history: when I want to open a document, I have a historical view of all my documents. I can found the presentation I work on 2 days ago for example. The desktop could be this historical view.
- tag documents: I can tag documents to find them quicker the next time.
- no window: all applications are full-screen. One application per virtual desktop. There is always a free virtual desktop (dynamically added).

]]> Comment on Three Point Zero by iain http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-78 iain Wed, 03 Sep 2008 18:32:12 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-78 shaunm for president! shaunm for president!

]]> Comment on Three Point Zero by shaunm http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-77 shaunm Wed, 03 Sep 2008 18:15:22 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-77 I'm not sure that's really Stormy's job. Her job is to handle the business side of things. It's up to us to handle the technical side. And yes, I consider release management to be a technical job. She doesn't dictate the direction of Gnome. She helps us get Gnome in places where it needs to be. It should be the release team's job. That's why we have them. The problem is that the release team, historically, is a non-decisive body. Their job has always been to try to capture community consensus. They're poll counters. (RT members, please, I'm not trying to be insulting to you personally. It's just the way we've always run things.) I’m not sure that’s really Stormy’s job. Her job is to handle the business side of things. It’s up to us to handle the technical side. And yes, I consider release management to be a technical job. She doesn’t dictate the direction of Gnome. She helps us get Gnome in places where it needs to be.

It should be the release team’s job. That’s why we have them. The problem is that the release team, historically, is a non-decisive body. Their job has always been to try to capture community consensus. They’re poll counters. (RT members, please, I’m not trying to be insulting to you personally. It’s just the way we’ve always run things.)

]]> Comment on Three Point Zero by Johannes http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-76 Johannes Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:24:52 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-76 I completely agree with you. As I stated before I think we really need to skip on 2.x release before 3.0 to have enough time to get some of the bigger things done. Of course we branch and do things like that but making a 2.x is a huge amount of work for all the core hackers and this won't give them the time to work on the "Next big thing". Let's start the brainstorming somewhere! I completely agree with you. As I stated before I think we really need to skip on 2.x release before 3.0 to have enough time to get some of the bigger things done. Of course we branch and do things like that but making a 2.x is a huge amount of work for all the core hackers and this won’t give them the time to work on the “Next big thing”.

Let’s start the brainstorming somewhere!

]]> Comment on Three Point Zero by kelemeng http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-75 kelemeng Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:16:08 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-75 "Somebody has to be willing to say “the buck stops here”." You misspelled it. Correctly: "Stormy has to be willing to say “the buck stops here”." Isn't this why we have her? :) Hackers tend either to hack away endlessly, "just this one last feature please" or worse, say something like "no, this is a no-go beacuse it's the creation of your employer/the devil/Microsoft". Our new boss seems to be not this type at all, is not on the previous list of possible evildoers and has a legitimate power, thus perfect to put an end to such pitiful quarrels and make the necessary decisions, as Johannes said. “Somebody has to be willing to say “the buck stops here”.”

You misspelled it. Correctly:

“Stormy has to be willing to say “the buck stops here”.”

Isn’t this why we have her? :)

Hackers tend either to hack away endlessly, “just this one last feature please” or worse, say something like “no, this is a no-go beacuse it’s the creation of your employer/the devil/Microsoft”.

Our new boss seems to be not this type at all, is not on the previous list of possible evildoers and has a legitimate power, thus perfect to put an end to such pitiful quarrels and make the necessary decisions, as Johannes said.

]]> Comment on Three Point Zero by Johannes Berg http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-74 Johannes Berg Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:12:51 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2008/09/03/three-point-zero/#comment-74 As I'm only loosely following gnome, one big selling point for gnome 3.0 for me personally would be "a better auto" replacement. When I want to start hacking on a project, I don't want to have to fight with the autotools, ideally I'd only have to svn co the right project and then start hacking right away. Don't get me wrong, autotools might solve the problem, but I'm frequently bitten by them being very hard to use and thus mostly wrong, so often enough I find myself not contributing to a project because the initial barrier is too high. Yes, of course such a change can be done without a major version change, but it's easier then because it becomes a migration point for projects that want to be part of 3.0. I agree with you though, gnome needs leadership, decisions like this apparently cannot be made in a huge group. As I’m only loosely following gnome, one big selling point for gnome 3.0 for me personally would be “a better auto” replacement. When I want to start hacking on a project, I don’t want to have to fight with the autotools, ideally I’d only have to svn co the right project and then start hacking right away.

Don’t get me wrong, autotools might solve the problem, but I’m frequently bitten by them being very hard to use and thus mostly wrong, so often enough I find myself not contributing to a project because the initial barrier is too high.

Yes, of course such a change can be done without a major version change, but it’s easier then because it becomes a migration point for projects that want to be part of 3.0.

I agree with you though, gnome needs leadership, decisions like this apparently cannot be made in a huge group.

]]>