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	<title>Comments for Shaun's Blog</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm</link>
	<description>Fourteen hours to save the Earth</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:45:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Marketing Hackfest by stormy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2009/11/20/marketing-hackfest/comment-page-1/#comment-278</link>
		<dc:creator>stormy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/?p=197#comment-278</guid>
		<description>I know one of the things we talked about people needing was how to talk to the press. Other things are how to write a press release (including getting quotes.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know one of the things we talked about people needing was how to talk to the press. Other things are how to write a press release (including getting quotes.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on On Individual Recognition by Karsten 'quaid' Wade</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2009/11/13/on-individual-recognition/comment-page-1/#comment-276</link>
		<dc:creator>Karsten 'quaid' Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/?p=193#comment-276</guid>
		<description>Shaun,

Pulse looks interesting.  One thing my team at Red Hat works on is trying to find ways of proactively measuring community health, which is essential for any contributor-focused community.  Next time you have a few minutes, ping me on IRC, I&#039;d love to talk about possible collaboration around Pulse.

Here are some parts we&#039;ve been trying or working with:

https://fedorahosted.org/ekg/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Dashboard
http://github.com/mpdehaan/lookatgit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shaun,</p>
<p>Pulse looks interesting.  One thing my team at Red Hat works on is trying to find ways of proactively measuring community health, which is essential for any contributor-focused community.  Next time you have a few minutes, ping me on IRC, I&#8217;d love to talk about possible collaboration around Pulse.</p>
<p>Here are some parts we&#8217;ve been trying or working with:</p>
<p><a href="https://fedorahosted.org/ekg/" rel="nofollow">https://fedorahosted.org/ekg/</a><br />
<a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Dashboard" rel="nofollow">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Dashboard</a><br />
<a href="http://github.com/mpdehaan/lookatgit" rel="nofollow">http://github.com/mpdehaan/lookatgit</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on On Individual Recognition by Máirín Duffy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2009/11/13/on-individual-recognition/comment-page-1/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>Máirín Duffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 04:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/?p=193#comment-275</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s bad to list off top ten lists with no rationale, just names.

Say what the person did to be there. Otherwise how are people going to aspire to achieve better if they don&#039;t even know what it takes to get named on the list?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s bad to list off top ten lists with no rationale, just names.</p>
<p>Say what the person did to be there. Otherwise how are people going to aspire to achieve better if they don&#8217;t even know what it takes to get named on the list?</p>
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		<title>Comment on On Individual Recognition by Juanjo Marin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2009/11/13/on-individual-recognition/comment-page-1/#comment-273</link>
		<dc:creator>Juanjo Marin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/?p=193#comment-273</guid>
		<description>And AFAIK, the GNOME bugzilla disappeared after the migration

Yes, I think Pulse could be used for tracking data, but apart from that I think I could be nice to have more social content, with features similar to linkedit

- Give thanks and recommendations
- Have different cute views of your work
- Add nice comments from mailing list or bugzilla
- list contributor of the project</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And AFAIK, the GNOME bugzilla disappeared after the migration</p>
<p>Yes, I think Pulse could be used for tracking data, but apart from that I think I could be nice to have more social content, with features similar to linkedit</p>
<p>- Give thanks and recommendations<br />
- Have different cute views of your work<br />
- Add nice comments from mailing list or bugzilla<br />
- list contributor of the project</p>
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		<title>Comment on On Individual Recognition by shaunm</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2009/11/13/on-individual-recognition/comment-page-1/#comment-272</link>
		<dc:creator>shaunm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/?p=193#comment-272</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your input, Juanjo.

As for &quot;something like ohloh&quot;, there is Pulse, the everything tracker I started developing to help the documentation team.

http://www.gnome.org/~shaunm/pulse/web/

I need to dust it off and get it running again.  There&#039;s a scoring system in there, because I was hoping to highlight people who&#039;ve recently put in a lot of work.  But now I&#039;m not so sure about that, because of some of the divisive karma-chasing I&#039;ve seen in the Launchpad community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your input, Juanjo.</p>
<p>As for &#8220;something like ohloh&#8221;, there is Pulse, the everything tracker I started developing to help the documentation team.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gnome.org/~shaunm/pulse/web/" rel="nofollow">http://www.gnome.org/~shaunm/pulse/web/</a></p>
<p>I need to dust it off and get it running again.  There&#8217;s a scoring system in there, because I was hoping to highlight people who&#8217;ve recently put in a lot of work.  But now I&#8217;m not so sure about that, because of some of the divisive karma-chasing I&#8217;ve seen in the Launchpad community.</p>
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		<title>Comment on On Individual Recognition by Karsten 'quaid' Wade</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2009/11/13/on-individual-recognition/comment-page-1/#comment-271</link>
		<dc:creator>Karsten 'quaid' Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/?p=193#comment-271</guid>
		<description>Mel and I have been having follow-up discussions.  She has a natural discomfort with the situation of working as an open community person for Red Hat.  There is a clear barrier to participation in our @redhat.com team -- you have to be hired by Red Hat and made a part of the team.  Clearly not like other teams in open communities.  Very cliqueish, especially if we as a team are not careful about that.  So, my blog post was more fodder for the ongoing discussions around this that our team has.  Important stuff to talk about.

We have a sensitivity in our team around wide public praise specifically because of the experience I mention in this comment:

http://iquaid.org/2009/11/11/calling-out-superrockstars-considered-harmful/#comment-3676

We made the mistake of backing a &quot;Fedora Award&quot; that brought this whole topic forward and made it very clear what a mistake the whole idea was.

OK, so how does this help your question?

One thing I probably glossed over in my post is the idea of a recognition spectrum.  It&#039;s not all or none, and it has to be scaled to fit the size and interaction of a group.  For example, group/team recognition works great. Then let the individual teams work out amongst themselves keeping people stoked about their work.  I do that formula with e.g. Fedora Docs. I&#039;ll do a blog post about how rocking the group is, with such a huge amount of work done, etc.  Then I&#039;ll post something another time to just the list, highlighting the achievement of individuals.

Think of it like a recreational soccer/football team.  (A rec team isn&#039;t competitive, just friendly competition, sort of like FLOSS.)  Each team gets kudos for how well they play games.  Within each team, the coaches, captains, and invididual members give in-team praise for practice and game play.

I love to do something at e.g. a FUDCon where we embarass someone with in-room praise and applause.  Those are the situations where our humanity can overcome our feelings of disenfranchisement.  You are in the room showering praise on a great person who doesn&#039;t get enough of it.  That&#039;s when the, &quot;Hey, everyone, three cheers for Foo!&quot; is perfect.  Just as, five minutes later, Foo is getting teased for something else.

Not every social interaction, such as rewarding praise, translates equally well to the wider online world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mel and I have been having follow-up discussions.  She has a natural discomfort with the situation of working as an open community person for Red Hat.  There is a clear barrier to participation in our @redhat.com team &#8212; you have to be hired by Red Hat and made a part of the team.  Clearly not like other teams in open communities.  Very cliqueish, especially if we as a team are not careful about that.  So, my blog post was more fodder for the ongoing discussions around this that our team has.  Important stuff to talk about.</p>
<p>We have a sensitivity in our team around wide public praise specifically because of the experience I mention in this comment:</p>
<p><a href="http://iquaid.org/2009/11/11/calling-out-superrockstars-considered-harmful/#comment-3676" rel="nofollow">http://iquaid.org/2009/11/11/calling-out-superrockstars-considered-harmful/#comment-3676</a></p>
<p>We made the mistake of backing a &#8220;Fedora Award&#8221; that brought this whole topic forward and made it very clear what a mistake the whole idea was.</p>
<p>OK, so how does this help your question?</p>
<p>One thing I probably glossed over in my post is the idea of a recognition spectrum.  It&#8217;s not all or none, and it has to be scaled to fit the size and interaction of a group.  For example, group/team recognition works great. Then let the individual teams work out amongst themselves keeping people stoked about their work.  I do that formula with e.g. Fedora Docs. I&#8217;ll do a blog post about how rocking the group is, with such a huge amount of work done, etc.  Then I&#8217;ll post something another time to just the list, highlighting the achievement of individuals.</p>
<p>Think of it like a recreational soccer/football team.  (A rec team isn&#8217;t competitive, just friendly competition, sort of like FLOSS.)  Each team gets kudos for how well they play games.  Within each team, the coaches, captains, and invididual members give in-team praise for practice and game play.</p>
<p>I love to do something at e.g. a FUDCon where we embarass someone with in-room praise and applause.  Those are the situations where our humanity can overcome our feelings of disenfranchisement.  You are in the room showering praise on a great person who doesn&#8217;t get enough of it.  That&#8217;s when the, &#8220;Hey, everyone, three cheers for Foo!&#8221; is perfect.  Just as, five minutes later, Foo is getting teased for something else.</p>
<p>Not every social interaction, such as rewarding praise, translates equally well to the wider online world.</p>
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		<title>Comment on On Individual Recognition by Juanjo Marin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2009/11/13/on-individual-recognition/comment-page-1/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>Juanjo Marin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/?p=193#comment-270</guid>
		<description>For me getting credit for what I&#039;ve done is enough recognition. I think the key point is making easier to contribute  and to improve the visibility of your work on GNOME.

Maybe having a place where you can check all your contributions is a good start, something like ohloh for GNOME, with personal feedback from the community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me getting credit for what I&#8217;ve done is enough recognition. I think the key point is making easier to contribute  and to improve the visibility of your work on GNOME.</p>
<p>Maybe having a place where you can check all your contributions is a good start, something like ohloh for GNOME, with personal feedback from the community.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Yelp Live Help by Jim Campbell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2009/09/28/yelp-live-help/comment-page-1/#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/?p=184#comment-255</guid>
		<description>This is a neat idea, Shaun.  The part that concerns me about the live help is the, &quot;hopefully populated with people who want to help,&quot; part.  Unless this was done via IRC, I think we&#039;d have a rough go of it.  As it is now, getting live support in IRC can be pretty hit-or-miss, and new users are prone to join a channel, ask a question, and then leave if they don&#039;t get some kind of direct response within 30 seconds or so.  

Moreover, I think asking people who normally idle/assist users in IRC to also idle/assist users in another real-time messaging format might be a tough nut to crack.  

As for the comments and such . . .  It sounds interesting.  I agree with others&#039; concerns about how to handle comment spam and internationalization issues.  As a point of reference for help feedback, it might be worth looking at some sample Gmail help topics: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6593  You&#039;re being all visionary and cool, though, while I&#039;m just saying, &quot;Let&#039;s see what other folks do.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a neat idea, Shaun.  The part that concerns me about the live help is the, &#8220;hopefully populated with people who want to help,&#8221; part.  Unless this was done via IRC, I think we&#8217;d have a rough go of it.  As it is now, getting live support in IRC can be pretty hit-or-miss, and new users are prone to join a channel, ask a question, and then leave if they don&#8217;t get some kind of direct response within 30 seconds or so.  </p>
<p>Moreover, I think asking people who normally idle/assist users in IRC to also idle/assist users in another real-time messaging format might be a tough nut to crack.  </p>
<p>As for the comments and such . . .  It sounds interesting.  I agree with others&#8217; concerns about how to handle comment spam and internationalization issues.  As a point of reference for help feedback, it might be worth looking at some sample Gmail help topics: <a href="http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6593" rel="nofollow">http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6593</a>  You&#8217;re being all visionary and cool, though, while I&#8217;m just saying, &#8220;Let&#8217;s see what other folks do.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Documentation at the Summit by Vincent Untz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2009/09/30/documentation-at-the-summit/comment-page-1/#comment-252</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent Untz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/?p=188#comment-252</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been willing to add some nice intro to the libwnck API reference for months (years?), so maybe you&#039;ll make me finally do it? :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been willing to add some nice intro to the libwnck API reference for months (years?), so maybe you&#8217;ll make me finally do it? <img src='http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Yelp Live Help by nixternal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/2009/09/28/yelp-live-help/comment-page-1/#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>nixternal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 03:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/?p=184#comment-249</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know what all the Ubuntu side does to the docs and patching. Hopefully they do like we do on the Kubuntu side. We keep the KDE docs as they are and we just add out docs that work together.

Now, with that said though, and I don&#039;t know how GNOME is, but I know in KDE it gets annoying when distros patch and it is their fault. There are quite a few bugs like this in KDE Bugzilla, and I am willing to bet the same goes for GNOME. See, this would be a tricky part, because a part of me says yeah, have Ubuntu patch to point to #ubuntu and the other half is no, don&#039;t patch, keep them going to #gnome or whatever.

Figuring this whole thing out will be a blast though :)  How about working with the OpenDesktop social API that they put out and have been having the competitions for? That might be something to keep in the back of your mind too during the planning phase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what all the Ubuntu side does to the docs and patching. Hopefully they do like we do on the Kubuntu side. We keep the KDE docs as they are and we just add out docs that work together.</p>
<p>Now, with that said though, and I don&#8217;t know how GNOME is, but I know in KDE it gets annoying when distros patch and it is their fault. There are quite a few bugs like this in KDE Bugzilla, and I am willing to bet the same goes for GNOME. See, this would be a tricky part, because a part of me says yeah, have Ubuntu patch to point to #ubuntu and the other half is no, don&#8217;t patch, keep them going to #gnome or whatever.</p>
<p>Figuring this whole thing out will be a blast though <img src='http://blogs.gnome.org/shaunm/wp-content/mu-plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   How about working with the OpenDesktop social API that they put out and have been having the competitions for? That might be something to keep in the back of your mind too during the planning phase.</p>
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