Comments on: In the land of emotions http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2006/05/12/in-the-land-of-emotions/ Just another GNOME Blogs weblog Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:01:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: An Onymous http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2006/05/12/in-the-land-of-emotions/comment-page-1/#comment-458 An Onymous Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2006/05/12/in-the-land-of-emotions/#comment-458 Please, do not repeat again that crap about "GStreamer 0.10 begin API/ABI stable". Just a few days ago Thomas Vander Stichele (<a href="http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.video.gstreamer.devel/15342">http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.video.gstreamer.devel/15342</a>) made a proposal to break API/ABI compatibility in 0.10!<br/> <br/>That's exactly why Phonon is the right choice for KDE4. It may be right for Gnome developers to change their software everytime GStreamer changes API/ABI (which is too often, sadly), but it's not for KDE. <br/> <br/>If KDE used GStreamer, either KDE app developers stick with GStreamer 0.10.5 for the whole KDE4 lifetime, or KDE app developers change their apps for GStreamer 0.10.6, 0.12, 0.14, etc. <br/> <br/>GStreamer releases so many versions with so many changes so often that it's a very fast-moving target, and that's definitely BAD. Please, do not repeat again that crap about “GStreamer 0.10 begin API/ABI stable”. Just a few days ago Thomas Vander Stichele (http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.video.gstreamer.devel/15342) made a proposal to break API/ABI compatibility in 0.10!

That’s exactly why Phonon is the right choice for KDE4. It may be right for Gnome developers to change their software everytime GStreamer changes API/ABI (which is too often, sadly), but it’s not for KDE.

If KDE used GStreamer, either KDE app developers stick with GStreamer 0.10.5 for the whole KDE4 lifetime, or KDE app developers change their apps for GStreamer 0.10.6, 0.12, 0.14, etc.

GStreamer releases so many versions with so many changes so often that it’s a very fast-moving target, and that’s definitely BAD.

]]> By: Chris Hubick http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2006/05/12/in-the-land-of-emotions/comment-page-1/#comment-459 Chris Hubick Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2006/05/12/in-the-land-of-emotions/#comment-459 In my mind, the ability of the Free Software community to quickly change and adapt API's to improve functionality, and supply application developers with the features they need to write great software, constitutes the very core of it's appeal, and advantage over the proprietary software world. Look at Linus attitude towards breaking compatibility with binary kernel modules.<p/>API changes just require good communication and coordination among developers - which is what the distributed Free Software community *must* learn to be good at anyhow. Whether GStreamer devs need to do better communicating API changes to their users is a different question.<p/>I think the Phonon approach will represent much more work in the end than it should be to adapt to a changing GStreamer - whose API changes should slow dramatically as it matures (has matured?). And aside from that, if KDE wants to lose their ability to adapt and drag themselves down with paperwork and silly binary compatibility policies, that's their problem.<br/> In my mind, the ability of the Free Software community to quickly change and adapt API’s to improve functionality, and supply application developers with the features they need to write great software, constitutes the very core of it’s appeal, and advantage over the proprietary software world. Look at Linus attitude towards breaking compatibility with binary kernel modules.

API changes just require good communication and coordination among developers – which is what the distributed Free Software community *must* learn to be good at anyhow. Whether GStreamer devs need to do better communicating API changes to their users is a different question.

I think the Phonon approach will represent much more work in the end than it should be to adapt to a changing GStreamer – whose API changes should slow dramatically as it matures (has matured?). And aside from that, if KDE wants to lose their ability to adapt and drag themselves down with paperwork and silly binary compatibility policies, that’s their problem.

]]> By: Thomas Vander Stichele http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2006/05/12/in-the-land-of-emotions/comment-page-1/#comment-460 Thomas Vander Stichele Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2006/05/12/in-the-land-of-emotions/#comment-460 I don't know why I even reply to people that choose their name on the first free variation of Anonymous they can find, but here goes anyway.<p/>An,<p/>1) which syllable of the word "pro-po-sal" did you not understand ?<br/>2) which letter can't you tell is different between the acronyms "API" and "ABI" ?<br/>3) do you even understand what's being proposed ? Of course we're not just breaking ABI, and breaking the API isn't even proposed at all.<p/>Good luck finding that rock again you crawled out under of. I don’t know why I even reply to people that choose their name on the first free variation of Anonymous they can find, but here goes anyway.

An,

1) which syllable of the word “pro-po-sal” did you not understand ?
2) which letter can’t you tell is different between the acronyms “API” and “ABI” ?
3) do you even understand what’s being proposed ? Of course we’re not just breaking ABI, and breaking the API isn’t even proposed at all.

Good luck finding that rock again you crawled out under of.

]]> By: Mike Hearn http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2006/05/12/in-the-land-of-emotions/comment-page-1/#comment-461 Mike Hearn Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2006/05/12/in-the-land-of-emotions/#comment-461 Re: the comment in that thread "if nobody is using an interface, does changing it count as a break" I'd have thought the answer is clearly yes ... it's impossible to prove nobody is using a particular interface so once shipped as stable it has to remain that way even if very obscure. Otherwise the interface is not really stable in the traditional sense of the word but rather "stable as long as we know about your app and believe it important enough to keep".<p/>That's a general comment, I don't understand the details of that specific proposal so can't say what effect it'd have on apps. Re: the comment in that thread “if nobody is using an interface, does changing it count as a break” I’d have thought the answer is clearly yes … it’s impossible to prove nobody is using a particular interface so once shipped as stable it has to remain that way even if very obscure. Otherwise the interface is not really stable in the traditional sense of the word but rather “stable as long as we know about your app and believe it important enough to keep”.

That’s a general comment, I don’t understand the details of that specific proposal so can’t say what effect it’d have on apps.

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