Wow, so a survey shows that “1/3 of people believe a woman is partially or completely responsible for being raped if she has behaved flirtatiously“.
I remember once, in a taxi in Madrid, the taxi driver trying to convince me about this same thing, talking about a woman in the are where he lives that “dressed flirtatiously” (“like a bitch” he said a couple of times) and that “was calling for someone to rape her”, and also the guide we had while in Egypt saying something similar (“that woman was raped because she dressed like a bitch”).
So, is there not hope for men to behave like real men and not like troglodytes? Not sure about the statistics a few years ago (when machism, at least in Spain, was more spread than it is now), but a 3rd looks like a lot to me. I wonder what those people would say if I stole their car because “they left the door open and so was calling for someone to steal it”.
I posted a comment a while ago about young girls dressing and acting as if they wanted to get interest of a sexual nature.
To quote myself:
“Today I was further reminded of the direction this world is taking. 50 years ago, girls would quietly sit on trains, reading or chatting. Today on the train I was treated to 3 girls who could not have been more than 14 years old yelling the lyrics to ‘Khia – My Neck, My Back’ – “My neck, my back, lick my pussy and my crack…”…. Lets just keep blaming the internet for the rise in paedophilia shall we because it’s easier that way. It can’t be the skimpy outfits that breastless 12 year old girls are wearing, or the 14 year old girls yelling at people to go down on them.”
Raping is an act of violence, so if the teengirls are asking for sex and they want to have sex with you, that’s not a rape, it’s an agreed situation by both parts. Having girls singing this should not give you any right at all to rape them. And even if they are just singing to make people angry, still no right at all to rape them.
A “No” is a “No”, no matter what circumstances.
Quite
Likely they’d say you were criminally responsible for stealing their car and that they were stupid for leaving the car door open. Their stupidity doesn’t justify your thieving, it just explains why they were targetted. I think a lot of people have a problem either understanding that distinction or verbalizing it as something other than “blame”.
> I wonder what those people would say if I stole their car
> because “they left the door open and so was calling for
> someone to steal it”.
Do you know that in some countries leaving your car open with the key plugged is illegal, the reason being that this means the person practically asks for the car to be stolen? (Which, for example, in turn might risk that a child could be tempted to steal it, causing an accident in the process.)
Of course, the thief is still guilty.
Of course rape is a terrible act. But I think modern evolutionary biology disagrees with your “rape is an act of violence” assertion (which suggests that rape is NOT an act of sex).
Throughout evolution, rape has been a successful evolutionary strategy for some. The genes don’t care if they are passed on by rape or consensual sex.
Despite the CONSCIOUS female suffering (which I don’t mean to trivialize), the GENES of the female may actually BENEFIT from the test of fitness that rape often involves– if 10 males attempt rape, but only the strongest/fitest succeeds, that’s “natural selection” at work.
This does not JUSTIFY rape, but it may help to EXPLAIN rape.
Of course, modern condoms and abortion limit or eliminate the genes’ benefit of rape (for both participants) but, well, genes don’t “know” about condoms and abortions.
“Do you know that in some countries leaving your car open with the key plugged is illegal, the reason being that this means the person practically asks for the car to be stolen? (Which, for example, in turn might risk that a child could be tempted to steal it, causing an accident in the process.)”
Laws like these are pretty stupid – which I believe you might agree with based on your last comment. There comes a choice where someone makes a decision to do an action that is illegal, unethical, or immoral.
I think that there are cultures, in the west and elsewhere, that feel that the victim is liable for any actions against him or her. This is not new at all, of course, as before blame was put on demons, or alcohol, or in this case the seductive nature of women. It is bullshit, of couse, and the blame lies at the feet of the people who make the decisions to do harm.
This problem is no where near its end – if it was a good deal of the legal cases in the United States would be thrown right out of court.
Just a quick note about this subject: You need to be careful when you talk about “blame” and crime — both sides of this argument may, in fact, be saying much the same thing but misunderstanding each other. Or even one side may be deliberately misrepresenting the other.
Let me use an example, without the emotive “rape!” hotbutton… suppose I walk through a rough, poor and crime-ridden neighbourhood waving a big wad of money around. I head down a dark alley and get mugged.
Who’s to blame? Why, the criminal who mugged me, of course.
Who’s to “blame”? Me, for being a bloody idiot and walking into such a situation.
If you put yourself in such a situation by foolish actions, I can well imagine many people thinking “well.. you asked for it.” And they would be right… but that doesn’t mean they are excusing the mugger or absolving him of blame. He’s a criminal and deserves to be punished. I’m a bloody fool who should’ve known better.
Do you see what I’m trying to say? If you stop someone on the street and ask them whether someone is to “blame”, you have to take this into account. The survey isn’t as sinister as it seems… and it was likely either poorly designed, or deliberately worded in order to generate publicity for a cause.
ho please ! girls just want to have fun !
let people lives and DO NOT TRY TO judge them or to explain them with “genes theories”.
don’t TRY to forget your responsability because of the cloth of the woman
and please LET GIRLS sing what they want, wear what they want, say what they want and do what they want.
it totally not matters if it shocks you.
I salute man without prejudice
I despise others.
It’s the silliest thing I’ve heard. Yes, women are dick teasers, but that doesn’t justify raping them.
However, such a statistic does support the notion of women wearing the hijab like some muslims do, so that we “men have no excuse to rape women”, not implying that this is the reason why women wear it in Islam, but illustrating the issue at hand, “Men have to control themselves”.
People always mix up blame with cause and effect.
Should we blame Hitler’s mother for having sex and bearing a child?
(Just so that this discussion can continue, i just want to say that i invoked Godwin on purpose)
There is no exscuse for rape. That doesn’t change the fact that some people will rape if teased to far. And some will rape regardless.
If I go around wiht a wallet full of money hanging out of my pocket in a crowded place, I WILL lose my wallet.
If I go around nudging, or just eye-balling, people sooner or later i WILL get in to a fight. Add some alcohol to the picture and it will be sooner rather than later.
My behavoiur doesn’t justfy those acts. But intelligent peolple can calculate with the risks…