11 thoughts on “What Linus thinks of GNOME usability…”
If there was a specific decision to hide PPD options then I think it’s a bad one.
Rememer the UI mantra: “Make simple things simple and complex things possible”. As opposed, in this case, to impossible.
More tragically, I think the interface on Microsoft Windows is perfect for this (i.e. PostScript printer settings): an Advanced tab with a hierarchical list of PPD options…
Wow, has Linus always been such an arsehole, or is it just a recent thing?
Well, it is Linus thoughts, and he has said always that he prefers KDE better. But I don’t just like his language this time. I love GNOME and I personally can oppose on all counts on all his rebounds. I don’t need a @£$@£% PPD options, because I tweak printer only ONCE and then print all the time. heck, sometimes I see printer dialog even on two seconds, mostly.
So what is suitable for him as poweruser – and he is typicaly one – is not suitable or likable for common user.
Just old GNOME vs. KDE flame, but in higher level 🙂 Let’s hope they will iron things like this out.
That’s nice for you, but the rest of us would like to be able to print a draft document in draft mode, without wasting our expensive ink. It would also be nice to be able to print final documents in high quality mode, and print photos in photo quality mode so that they don’t come out looking like crap.
It’s a sad reflection on the quality and *usability* of the Gnome print dialog that the only way to actually *use* it is by choosing ‘generic postscript’ as the printer, and using a custom command such as “lp -o PrintoutMode=Draft.Gray”.
Better yet, just set the custom command to “kprinter”.
I’ve got so sick of playing “hunt for the feature that got removed in this version of gnome” that I just gave up and decided to go back to rolling my own desktop by choosing wm’s etc.
I really don’t care about my printer showing up in my print dialog box when I plug it in without having to refresh it. Sure that’s pretty cool, but being prevented from doing other things that I need to do means that I can’t use gnome at all. I consider myself an advanced user, and I’m getting more and more frustrated that things I take for granted on a Unix system being made nearly impossible to achieve from within the Gnome environment, or at least they make the features harder to access.
Sam, I didn’t say that I don’t want CUPS options in GNOME printing system – in fact, my pick is that GNOME printing system was and still is somehow broken because lack of developers or what – I don’t know. I just wanted pointed out that it is not worth such a rant from Linus side. Sorry, If I sounded a little bit trollish.
Yes, it is broken. Yes, it should be fixed. But I _doubt_ that CUPS options are left out because of “design issues”. My pick is that gnome-print lacks development power, that’s all.
Peteris, you are correct; I was really just expressing frustration at the “the options from the PPD file are intentionally not listed in the printing dialog … they clutter the dialog and can be more confusing than useful to the user” attitude.
Of course, I forgot that the very message which started this whole discussion was actually about organising developers to improve the print dialog, and add the missing PPD options to it!
It will be a shame indeed if Linus’ post hijacks the discussion and draws effort away from that very important task.
I think Linus says pretty much what most of people who switched from gnome to kde. Gnome is designed for a “virtual user” that wants simple things. _Everybody_ indentifies, to some degree, with that user – but nobody feels the program does 100% of what he wants it to do.
KDE is designed for a virtual user that wants more things than a normal user. Everybody can fulfill 100% of their expectations because the program does more things than they need.
KDE usability is pretty poor, but if they make their usability better without removing options and features, gnome will have a bug trouble…
Yeah, overall I agree with most of the posters here. I love GNOME but I find myself always wanting to go back to KDE because GNOME doesn’t do something that I want. However, when I do go back to KDE I get annoyed with having to search through the poorly organized UI. (plus QT themes rarely seem to agree with my eyes)
I wish GNOME didn’t feel that a good UI meant minimalism in regards to features. I love simplicity but I need my programs to do what I want, the way I want. I wouldn’t care if I had to set all of the advanced features through gConf; it’d at least be a start.
Just trollvalds!!!!!!! xD
My sentiments are with GNOME, (its obvious because i love gnome) yet looking back on the history of Linux, how you guys the others shared talents & make open source a reality, its quite something… lets look on the bright side.
If there was a specific decision to hide PPD options then I think it’s a bad one.
Rememer the UI mantra: “Make simple things simple and complex things possible”. As opposed, in this case, to impossible.
More tragically, I think the interface on Microsoft Windows is perfect for this (i.e. PostScript printer settings): an Advanced tab with a hierarchical list of PPD options…
Wow, has Linus always been such an arsehole, or is it just a recent thing?
Well, it is Linus thoughts, and he has said always that he prefers KDE better. But I don’t just like his language this time. I love GNOME and I personally can oppose on all counts on all his rebounds. I don’t need a @£$@£% PPD options, because I tweak printer only ONCE and then print all the time. heck, sometimes I see printer dialog even on two seconds, mostly.
So what is suitable for him as poweruser – and he is typicaly one – is not suitable or likable for common user.
Just old GNOME vs. KDE flame, but in higher level 🙂 Let’s hope they will iron things like this out.
That’s nice for you, but the rest of us would like to be able to print a draft document in draft mode, without wasting our expensive ink. It would also be nice to be able to print final documents in high quality mode, and print photos in photo quality mode so that they don’t come out looking like crap.
It’s a sad reflection on the quality and *usability* of the Gnome print dialog that the only way to actually *use* it is by choosing ‘generic postscript’ as the printer, and using a custom command such as “lp -o PrintoutMode=Draft.Gray”.
Better yet, just set the custom command to “kprinter”.
I’ve got so sick of playing “hunt for the feature that got removed in this version of gnome” that I just gave up and decided to go back to rolling my own desktop by choosing wm’s etc.
I really don’t care about my printer showing up in my print dialog box when I plug it in without having to refresh it. Sure that’s pretty cool, but being prevented from doing other things that I need to do means that I can’t use gnome at all. I consider myself an advanced user, and I’m getting more and more frustrated that things I take for granted on a Unix system being made nearly impossible to achieve from within the Gnome environment, or at least they make the features harder to access.
Sam, I didn’t say that I don’t want CUPS options in GNOME printing system – in fact, my pick is that GNOME printing system was and still is somehow broken because lack of developers or what – I don’t know. I just wanted pointed out that it is not worth such a rant from Linus side. Sorry, If I sounded a little bit trollish.
Yes, it is broken. Yes, it should be fixed. But I _doubt_ that CUPS options are left out because of “design issues”. My pick is that gnome-print lacks development power, that’s all.
Peteris, you are correct; I was really just expressing frustration at the “the options from the PPD file are intentionally not listed in the printing dialog … they clutter the dialog and can be more confusing than useful to the user” attitude.
Of course, I forgot that the very message which started this whole discussion was actually about organising developers to improve the print dialog, and add the missing PPD options to it!
It will be a shame indeed if Linus’ post hijacks the discussion and draws effort away from that very important task.
I think Linus says pretty much what most of people who switched from gnome to kde. Gnome is designed for a “virtual user” that wants simple things. _Everybody_ indentifies, to some degree, with that user – but nobody feels the program does 100% of what he wants it to do.
KDE is designed for a virtual user that wants more things than a normal user. Everybody can fulfill 100% of their expectations because the program does more things than they need.
KDE usability is pretty poor, but if they make their usability better without removing options and features, gnome will have a bug trouble…
Yeah, overall I agree with most of the posters here.
I love GNOME but I find myself always wanting to go back to KDE because GNOME doesn’t do something that I want. However, when I do go back to KDE I get annoyed with having to search through the poorly organized UI. (plus QT themes rarely seem to agree with my eyes)
I wish GNOME didn’t feel that a good UI meant minimalism in regards to features. I love simplicity but I need my programs to do what I want, the way I want. I wouldn’t care if I had to set all of the advanced features through gConf; it’d at least be a start.
Just trollvalds!!!!!!! xD
My sentiments are with GNOME, (its obvious because i love gnome) yet looking back on the history of Linux, how you guys the others shared talents & make open source a reality, its quite something… lets look on the bright side.